Man-portability of heavy weapons

> Michael wrote:

ummm...I can't remember what GZG thread this was on, but I think it was a
discussion on what kind of heavy weapons could be man-packed.

*Engage ex-TOW platoon leader mode: (let's see how much I
remember....hehe...)*

Now, for the above numbers on the TOW, both numbers above are off, but in
opposite directions.

A crew of one is needed to assemble and operate a TOW. The usual crew is 3
or 4 (gunner, section leader, driver, loader--last two roles are
combined
in 3-man crews).  It is possible for a single person to operate it--just
takes a little longer between shots, and there isn't anyone for local security
or talking on the radio.

By the way, since I mentioned assembly, I think the standard is 2 minutes for
complete assembly, circuit check, missile loaded, and ready to
fire--for 1 person.

Now, the tricky question--man-portability of the TOW:
If you ask an 11H (Anti-tank specialist) how far a TOW should be
carried, the answer will be the distance from the armory to the vehicle, and
no farther. How far CAN they be carried? Well, any distance, but be ready for
some serious bitching.

I don't remember the exact weights anymore, and I don't have the TM's in front
of me, but the weight of the TOW system, with 1 missile is a little over 300
pounds. And none of the pieces are designed for easy carrying over long
distances. So, while it is possible for a 3 man crew to hump the TOW, you're
only going to have 1 shot when you get there. Each missile is about 70 pounds,
so adding more to their load quickly gets prohibitive.

When I made my platoon (6 teams, about 20 soldiers) hump their TOW's, we took
only 2 of the 6 launchers, and everyone not carrying a piece of the TOW, was
carrying a missile (myself included). This got us to our fighting
position with about 12 missiles, and everyone dog-tired.  I think the
farthest we humped like this was 10 miles, up and over the hills of S. Korea.

We never actually did this during maneuvers; we would just drive the Hummers
into place and prepare multiple firing postions. The disadvantages of
dismounting are so numerous that the only time that I would think about doing
so in a combat situation would be in a prepared defense (with the vehicles
nearby), or in some surprise insertion where the enemy would never expect AT
weapons, and the TOW's appearance there would reap great benefits.

*Disengage ex-TOW platoon leader mode.*

Well, if that gives you some general ideas about why things are classed as
_Heavy_ weapons, then good.  Obviously, if you assume some things like
advances in materials composition (lighter equipment), better optics (lighter
sights), etc....then things will be different. I won't even
mention anti-grav sleds....

Hope this helped,

Colfox spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> *Engage ex-TOW platoon leader mode: (let's see how much I

Cool!

> Now, for the above numbers on the TOW, both numbers above are off, but

So, a single operator might have to take every second action as a load action.

> By the way, since I mentioned assembly, I think the standard is 2

1 action of an activation to setup. (assumes 5 minute turn).

> Now, the tricky question--man-portability of the TOW:

Argh! That's worse than an enemy bayonet charge when you are out of
cartridges....

> I don't remember the exact weights anymore, and I don't have the TM's

So a four man team might carry two shots. Lets assume the future means lighter
missiles, be generous and call it three. But they'd
definitely move as encumbered. And if this is a GMS/L, that puts it
into its proper context.

> When I made my platoon (6 teams, about 20 soldiers) hump their TOW's,

Yuk. I've seen that terrain in several shows lately... yow. Almost as
inhospitable (in a different way) than the Tundra the Canadian Artic
Rangers operate across (at up to -115 Celcius).

> We never actually did this during maneuvers; we would just drive the

Or if your vehicles were destroyed for some reason but you wanted to keep your
GMS systems....

> *Disengage ex-TOW platoon leader mode.*

Well, if you have that kind of AG, then everyone should be in AG supported
heavy PA. (You obviously have compact power) and all should be firing Plasma
Guns. Otherwise, Heavy Weapons may be lighter, but as in the discussion about
infantry, if I could carry 10 mags of 500 rounds for my rifle for the same
weight of 4 30 round mags now, I'd do it. So presumably you'd just carry more
ammo (so you'd end up humping just about as much weight). A good example is
the Carl Gustav Recoilless Rifle (I think these should be treated as a
reloadable
IAVR or maybe a D12x2* IAVR-like direct fire weaon, FP D8 like an
IAVR). They made a lighter one for the Canuck army, but the weight (which was
lighter) was still anywhere but in the negligible category. It was still a pig
to carry.

> Hope this helped,

Good Info. I'm currious, off list, what units you served with. You seem to
have good solid information.:)

Tom.
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> Thomas Barclay wrote:

> So, a single operator might have to take every second action as a

I would boost that up even higher. There's also target acquisition (usually
done by the squad leader) to worry about and fatigue and friction (as the
enagement goes on). Maybe one out of three turns?. That's why they're caused
crew served weapons.