Date sent: 12-NOV-1996 16:57:41
I don't want to alarm people, but we have a problem.
This mailing list is now nearly 4 times larger than it was originally intended
to be. Now this is a good thing, and a sign things are going well UNLESS it's
your computer it's running on.
The list is beginning to get to a size where it effects the system here at
Bolton, eating the mail que whenever a message is sent. It could be a problem
in the very near future.
So I have to ask, is there anyone out there who can take over this list? I
know I've asked before, but this time it's serious.
There are roughly 200+ subscribers to the list, that's 150 too many.
We are left with several options.
1.) Somewhere else can take over the list, lock stock and barrel. It doesn't
have to be a fast list, or anything fancy. Just something that works and has
capacity that won't be missed. (If I could fix it so that all the days mail is
sent at midnight, that could work. But I don't think our mail server works
that way).
2.) Someone can create a second list, and we can link the two. The current
list taking all uk and europe subscribers, and another list taking the rest of
the world. Just have the lists as members of eachother, but with NoRepo set.
3.) Move over to a News Group. alt.games.miniatures.gzg or something. We could
probably swing a vote for r.g.m.sf
4.) Disband the list, and be left with r.g.m.m only
Problem with 3 and 4 is that not everyone has news access.
Take the above seriously. The list has grown beyond all expectations, and is
in serious danger of becoming a victim of it's own success.
> Adam Delafield wrote:
I'd love to help you if only I had the extra resources. Any chance Jon
Tuffley/GZG or Geo-Hex could help us out?
What exactly is involved in running a list, anyway?
Aaron P Teske <Mithramuse+@CMU.EDU> said...
> What exactly is involved in running a list, anyway?
Depends on the type of list. I'll start from teh begining, and walk through
the steps.
1) For just a couple of people, email aliases work well. This means everytime
someone is added or dropped, everyone must update their alias. Again, only
good for small numbers.
2) If you have access to a machine you can edit the sendmail aliases file on,
you can run an exploder type alias. This basically means a line in the aliases
file that mail to that address gets resent out to everyone on the list. THis
works well for medium sized lists, but after a while the trouble of adding and
deleting people by hand gets to be a lot of work
3) The final step is to go with a software package to handle the list,
majordomo or listserv being the most common. This is more work to set up, but
once done the list software handles a lot of the maint. for you. You generally
still have to deal with wierd address or broken stuff though.
So in general, its easy to run a small list, while a bigger list takes work.
It requires you to have a machine to run the list on, and the access to
install the software you need. Then some amount of time a week to do maint.
I find, for the two 300+ people lists I run, I spend a couple of hours a
week fixing bad email addresses and answering routine questions. Some weeks
less, and some weeks more if soome thing major goes wrong.
If anyone has more specific questions, I can try to answer them in private
email.
I have been toying with the idea of adding a threaded message group to my web
page, but I could set up a stand alone mail server just for the purpose. I
would like and input you could give on either idea.
Stuart Ford sford@aimnet.com
----------
> From: Adam Delafield <A.Delafield@bolton.ac.uk>
Please forget any spelling mistakes you may find, I'm trying to type with a
broken hand;)
Yea, I know cheap excuse, but it's honest.
Date sent: 13-NOV-1996 12:41:24
> I have been toying with the idea of adding a threaded message group to
> Stuart Ford
I've been inundated by offers. (well four anyway). As some people who offered
already run Mailing lists, I think I'll hand it over to one of them. Andy
Cowelle is my first choice, and I'm in contact with him about it.
Date sent: 13-NOV-1996 12:45:35
> I've been inundated by offers. (well four anyway). As some people who
Cowell sorry. I can never get that name right first time.
Date sent: 13-NOV-1996 18:28:48
> 3.) Move over to a News Group. alt.games.miniatures.gzg or something.
> This isn't a bad idea, but you'd see an even worse signal:noise ratio
The powers that be (not me this time, the Usenet people) were very resistant
to r.g.m.warhammer simply because it was specific to Games Workshop. A gzg
group would meet as much, if not more resistance.
sf is not specificaly mentioned in the remit of r.g.m.m. What is mentioned are
painting, modeling, sculpting and 'other games that do not fit
into...'
So a.sf (Speculative Fiction in Usenet terminology, so it covers Fantasy games
too) group is quite legitimate, as a section that is officialy only a catch
all, and not the specific intent of the group, is flooding the group and
drowning out the painting, sculpting etc posts.
> I doubt that r.g.m.sf would
It might also encourage more use of.m for painting tips etc, and keep the 'for
sale' posts in their place.
> At 05:12 PM 11/12/96 +0100, you wrote:
Obviously the preferred solution. I can't help you here, though.
> 2.) Someone can create a second list, and we can link the two.
I could live with this, but it's probably less likely than the other two.
> 3.) Move over to a News Group. alt.games.miniatures.gzg or something.
This isn't a bad idea, but you'd see an even worse signal:noise ratio than we
have recently. It will also take some time to set up and not everyone is going
to get the list (at least not at first). I'd prefer r.g.m.sf to an alt. list,
simply because a lot of sites aren't picking up alts. Is there any chance that
r.g.m.gzg would get a vote? I doubt that r.g.m.sf would succeed in a voting
process since it would essentially leave r.g.m.m empty.
> 4.) Disband the list, and be left with r.g.m.m only
I could live with this, but I'm not sure about the others.
Of course, Deja News would mean that Jerry wouldn't have to maintain an
archive.
In message <009AB51B.175B4B4A.378@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk> Adam Delafield
writes:
> The powers that be (not me this time, the Usenet people) were very
If I recall, the objection was to r.g.m.games-workshop, rather than
r.g.m.warhammer. One can play a "warhammer"-universe (or whatever you
call it) game with any rules or figures. I don't read r.g.m.wh but I recall a
somewhat subversive campaign on r.g.m where a list of
GW-esque figures was maintained.
> >I doubt that r.g.m.sf would
There should've been an r.g.m.marketplace.
> At 06:43 PM 11/13/96 +0100, you wrote:
Agreed.
> sf is not specificaly mentioned in the remit of r.g.m.m. What is
That would probably be the way to push it. Speculative Fiction would also
handle things like alternate history posts and the few Cthulhu miniatures
posts.
> It might also encourage more use of .m for painting tips etc, and keep
That wouldn't be a bad thing. I'd also "pad" the suggestion with a
rec.games.miniatures.marketplace group. It should have been created when
r.g.m.w, r.g.m.m, and r.g.m.h were made. Then the "for sale" posts would have
a proper place, and anyone looking for miniatures auctions wouldn't have to
look in rec.games.board.marketplace and rec.games.frp.marketplace.
Not to go too far off-topic, but....
Excerpts from FT: 13-Nov-96 Re: Looking for a new home. by Allan
Goodall@sympatico.
> >It might also encourage more use of .m for painting tips etc, and
I'm not really sure it would help. Yes, people would send their "for sale" or
"wanted" lists to.marketplace, but I've never seen a.marketplace that kept the
for sale postings, much less the watned ones, from appearing on a specific
newsgroup. People seem to have few if any qualms about crossposting in this
regard. Besides, the miniatures groups are pretty distinct (historical serves
historical minis, warhammer serves mostly GW minis, etc) and the gamer types
don't tend to
cross-pollinate that much -- not that I've seen, anyway. So, as it
stands now, the for sales for warhammer games don't tend to bother the
historical gamers, and vice versa, a situation I'm quite willing to live with.
FWIW, I am _strongly_ against a Usenet group for GZG related discussion.
r.g.m.m already carries some, but the majority is here on this list. This
has the _significant_ advantage that members have to subscribe to this
list
- That is, make a conscious effort to do so. Thereby the legal stuff
about GZG being able to use stuff that appears here then applies. This would
not be the case with a news group.
I would second the proposal that Andy Cowell (if he is willing) take it on.
Andy's web pages are great and AFAIAC are the "standard" repository for the
DSII and SGII FAQs as is Mark Siefert's page for FT.
Guys, Jon and I are deeply appreciative of your enthusiasm and commitment to
GZG and its products. Thank you all!
If the list is too unwieldy as it is then "regional" lists that are linked
sounds like a good answer to me.
Regards,
Mike Elliott, GZG
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for a new home.
Author: SMTP:owner-ftgzg-l@bolton.ac.uk/ at INTERNET
Date: 13/11/96 16:51
Date sent: 13-NOV-1996 12:41:24
> I have been toying with the idea of adding a threaded message group to
> Stuart Ford
I've been inundated by offers. (well four anyway). As some people who offered
already run Mailing lists, I think I'll hand it over to one of them. Andy
Cowelle is my first choice, and I'm in contact with him about it.
> At 01:16 PM 11/18/96 +0200, you wrote:
This
> has the _significant_ advantage that members have to subscribe to this
I like that part, since it tends to focus attention.
> Thereby the legal stuff about
This might not be as useful as you think. I talked to my wife about this
(she's a law clerk) and she--and her boss--are of the impression that
you are on pretty shakey legal ground, at least where Canada is concerned, if
you were to use anything on this list without written permission. In Canada,
you can't IMPLICITLY lose your legal rights even if you were to sign a
disclaimer up front. In other words even though you say that you can use
anything on this list, that declaration can not override my right to
copyright. It would be incredibly easy to fight this in court due to the
vagaries of mailing lists and the fact that no one on this list has actually
signed a contract with GZG. She's also pretty sure that the same thing applies
to both the US and the UK (but she's not certain).
This feature of the mailing list may not be all that important from a legal
perspective.
> I would second the proposal that Andy Cowell (if he is willing) take it
I actually like the idea of a mailing list, though. The signal to noise ratio
is better, especially when we've got someone like Adam ready to pull the plug.
Still, at least we wouldn't have to put up with bounce messages and a WINMAIL
files if we had a newsgroup.
> [quoted text omitted]