Hello,
I am trying to locate miniatures from a now out of production line. The models
I speak of are, Jovian Chronicles mecha, produced by RAFM a few years back for
the game of the same name. I hav tried the various trading outlets, but they
seem overrun by certain games that are not along the same lines as the mecha
games. Many of these miniatures were bought for use with Battletech, but are
nowhere to be found in stores anymore.
If you have any information on how to find them, where to find them, or even
have a few you'd like to be rid of, please contact me.
In a pinch, one can always call RAFM and order blisters with the appropriate
part code. Unless the license lapsed, there's a small but significant chance
they'll make some up and sell them to you.
> On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Tom McCarthy wrote:
> In a pinch, one can always call RAFM and order blisters with the
Their license *has* lapsed, and they [RAFM] are none to disposed to have any
contact with DP9 anytime in the near or distant future. Neither JC nor HG
minis can be bought from RAFM any more.:(
So what happened? Sounds like you know some good industry gossip. C'mon, I
musta missed it, dish already.
> At 10:16 AM -0700 4/29/99, -MWS- wrote:
On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:21:25 -0700, Michael Llaneza <maserati@flash.net>
wrote:
> So what happened ? Sounds like you know some good industry gossip.
Actually... I happen to have some gossip. *S*
At the time DP9 announced a conversion to the new scale, I was in the middle
of glueing together figures from the old scale. I got kind of peeved that
suddenly the game scale that I was playing with was going to be orphaned and I
said so. DP9 posted their side of the story.
A day later, I had a message in my in box from a RAFM employee telling me
about THEIR side of the story. They eventually waited until some products were
released and then posted their side (though I thought they should have
countered the allegations earlier).
Basically, as in most arguments, there are three sides to it.
The problem seems to stem from two main problems: quality control on the
figures produced by RAFM, and delayed releases of the figures.
The product control issue was a RAFM problem. Some of the small bits that made
up the blister packs were missing from some of the production runs. I know the
store I bought mine from (The Worldhouse, in Toronto) ended up sending a whole
mess of them back because they were all missing bits. This did essentially
kill the game in their store as it took RAFM forever to send replacements.
Now, RAFM thoroughly admits that it made mistakes (kind of hard not to).
However, what DP9 didn't say (when it went around blaming RAFM for the
problem) was that RAFM warned them that this could happen. RAFM warned DP9
that the models were too complex and that the logistics would make things
difficult. DP9 pushed anyway. RAFM wanted sculpted figures without most of the
add-ons. DP9 wanted people to be able to heavily modify the models.
The delayed release of the figures, though, is the thornier issue. DP9 claimed
it was RAFM production problems. However, the RAFM rep claimed that a lot of
it was slow-ups with DP9. DP9 had to approve the art work for the
packaging, and this more than anything (according to RAFM) delayed the release
of critical models.
RAFM points to one of the figures (I don't know which) that was eagerly
anticipated it. RAFM was selling them at GenCon '97 (or was it '96) in a
pre-release state. This apparently bugged DP9. RAFM was trying to prove
a point: the figures were ready, the boxes were not.
DP9 blamed all of this on RAFM, and while RAFM did have a good chunk of the
blame, so did DP9. Even still, RAFM still expected to get a renewal of the
license... until, with very little warning, DP9 announced their new line of
figures. RAFM would not be producing them.
This is documented on Deja News. If you go back to last year, you'll see DP9s
arguments, and you'll eventually see RAFM's public statement.
I do know that DP9 was using the Worldhouse's experience to explain how RAFM
messed things up. What DP9 does NOT mention is that while the Worldhouse
almost gave up on Heavy Gear because of the RAFM mess, they COMPLETELY gave up
on Heavy Gear when it was re-released in the new scale.
Also, the figures were far more "bang for the buck" from RAFM than from DP9.
The reason for the new scale, from what I hear, is that the Internet mailing
list was asked what they wanted, and they called for a smaller scale. I
suspect this was too narrow a demographic: rabid players who had a mature
collection in the larger scale. A lot of us who were just getting into it, or
who were collecting slowly, felt abandoned. For instance, I gave up on the
game entirely. I should probably sell what I've got, but I just didn't bother
buying any more for it. Also, the scale (1/144) is weird for ground
combat. At HO scale, there were plenty of sources for terrain (particularly
buildings) and vehicles (kitbashing). The smaller scale is odd... too big for
micro armour stuff (like the GZG buildings) and too small for HO or 15mm...
In the end, I think the two companies had a falling out and instead of working
together they divorced. I don't know how well Heavy Gear miniatures are doing
now, except to say that I hardly see the small scale at all. I know a lot of
the retailers around here don't like it as the figures are too small for the
price.
Just some observations...
Have you tried EBay?
http://www.ebay.com
The only hits I had were these, so far...
<A
HREF="http://search.ebay.com/cgi-bin/texis/ebay/results.html?query=RAFM&
maxRec ordsReturned=300&maxRecordsPerPage=50&SortProperty=MetaEndSort">Items
matching ( RAFM).
</A>
http://search.ebay.com/cgi-bin/texis/ebay/results.html?query=RAFM&maxRec
ordsRe turned=300&maxRecordsPerPage=50&SortProperty=MetaEndSort
Randy
In a message dated 4/30/99 10:39:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> agoodall@interlog.com writes:
<<
The product control issue was a RAFM problem. Some of the small bits that made
up the blister packs were missing from some of the production runs. I know the
store I bought mine from (The Worldhouse, in Toronto) ended up sending a whole
mess of them back because they were all missing bits. This did essentially
kill the game in their store as it took RAFM forever to send replacements.>>
RAFM did take measures to fix this. In '96 or '97 blisters started showing up
with parts still on the sprues. There is enough metal in the sprue to produce
another half a figure.
> The delayed release of the figures, though, is the thornier issue.
DP9 claimed it was RAFM production problems. However, the RAFM rep claimed
that a lot of
it was slow-ups with DP9. DP9 had to approve the art work for the
packaging, and this more than anything (according to RAFM) delayed the release
of critical models.<<
This is still an excuse for DP9. The new 10mm tactical boxs were delayed 4 to
6 months. DP9 blamed the printers claiming they had printed them in pink.
> DP9 blamed all of this on RAFM, and while RAFM did have a good chunk
This is documented on Deja News. If you go back to last year, you'll see DP9s
arguments, and you'll eventually see RAFM's public statement.<<
Apparently DP9 set up a complaint line under the illusion that the comments
were going to RAFM. RAFM in their statement claimed that the were never
informed about this until much later when a large body of complaints were
dropped on them at once to justify dropping the license.
> I do know that DP9 was using the Worldhouse's experience to explain
Also, the figures were far more "bang for the buck" from RAFM than from DP9.
<<
Same here at Little Wars. The store had been opeen a few months, and my
customers (and I) were looking foward to Gear Krieg. The announcement to go to
10mm completely killed the game. When the first 10mm showed up (dubbed the
"Disco-Gear" by my customers) it justified their decision.
At one point I thought it was just me and I preordered one on the new
Striders. I didn't think anybody could outprice Games Workshop. I can't even
sell the thing at 30% off.
> The reason for the new scale, from what I hear, is that the Internet
mailing list was asked what they wanted, and they called for a smaller scale.
I suspect this was too narrow a demographic: rabid players who had a mature
collection in the larger scale. A lot of us who were just getting into it, or
who were collecting slowly, felt abandoned. For instance, I gave up on the
game entirely. I should probably sell what I've got, but I just didn't bother
buying any more for it. Also, the scale (1/144) is weird for ground
combat. At HO scale, there were plenty of sources for terrain (particularly
buildings) and vehicles (kitbashing). The smaller scale is odd... too big for
micro armour stuff (like the GZG buildings) and too small for HO or 15mm...<<
This was the worse part. I exchanged e-mails with DP9 several times on
one of the newsgroups. During the exchanges, the response from other people
were about 6 to 1 against changing scale (estimated). I was told that no one
like the large scale. It was too big, too hard to transport, too hard to
assemble and that the new scale would be easier to get terrain for. My
arguement that
I didn't know of anyone who made 10mm sci-fi terrain was blown off.
I was also told that Heavy Gear is primarily a roll playing game and thats
where the sales are, so scale is not important. All my sales have been to
tabletop gamers, some of who use the roll plaing to add color to the game.
When I brought up the very positive response to the Gear Kreig idea, how it
would bring in historical players who already had 20mm WWII, and how the game
cold get off to a flying start because so many 20mm WWII lines already
existed, I was told that that would be a hell of a was to do business because
DP9 would not get the sale of the WWII figures. Considering they don't make
WWII figures, that arguement seems pretty weak. I can't defend RAFM. Every
time I've tried to deal with them I've gotten a bad attitude or no results.
But in this case it seems to me it's just plain greed on DP9s part. It real
shame considering what a quality game Heavy Gear is.
Sorry for the diatribe.
> On Sat, 1 May 1999 10:34:09 EDT, Fabet@aol.com wrote:
> I can't defend RAFM. Every time I've tried to deal with them I've
First to your comments about Gear Kreig: I didn't even know it was out! None
of the stores that I frequent got it in. I was looking forward to this, too.
The amount of WWII stuff out there is HUGE in 20mm scale, so their decision to
go to 10mm (a scale that isn't terribly popular in North America) was weird. I
suspect that, like you, it killed the game.
Basically, DP9 is one of those companies that created an interesting game but
are genuinely clueless about marketing.
I can't say much about RAFM. Every contact I've had with them has bee great. I
love their Call of Cthulhu figures. I did have a big problem getting Silent
Death miniatures from them because of a dispute between them and a local
distributor. But Dream Pod 9 is totally clueless. If they show up at GenCon
this year (they were part of last year's boycott) I'll tell them what I think
of their game scales...
In a message dated 5/2/99 7:38:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> agoodall@interlog.com writes:
<< First to your comments about Gear Kreig: I didn't even know it was out!
None of the stores that I frequent got it in. I was looking forward to this,
too. The amount of WWII stuff out there is HUGE in 20mm scale, so their
decision to go to 10mm (a scale that isn't terribly popular in North America)
was weird. I suspect that, like you, it killed the game.>>
It never did come out. Thats the problem. I was at Gencon in 97 when they were
demoing it. The tables were constantly filled. Some there said they were
getting historical gamers from down the hall. The fact that they went with an
unsupported scale (until recently) is very typical of game companies trying to
create a new market (G.W. and '28mm' for example.
<<Basically, DP9 is one of those companies that created an interesting game
but are genuinely clueless about marketing.
I can't say much about RAFM. Every contact I've had with them has bee great. I
love their Call of Cthulhu figures. I did have a big problem getting Silent
Death miniatures from them because of a dispute between them and a local
distributor. But Dream Pod 9 is totally clueless. If they show up at GenCon
this year (they were part of last year's boycott) I'll tell them what I think
of their game scales...
> [quoted text omitted]
I also talked to RAFM at that Gencon. The person I talked to really had a bad
attitude. No matter what Question I asked him he grumbled the exact same
answer. Since I've opened my store I've e-mailed them three times about
going direct (since the fill from distributors is pretty dismal for all RAFM's
lines). I got a responds once that said the wold pass on the request to
higher. A few weeks later I got an out of date catalog. I called them direct
almost a month ago and asked asked for a dealers packet. Still no packet. If
you have a name of someone I can talk to, please let me know. I really like
the RAFM figures and I want them here in Little Wars, but the frustration
level is building.