Loactions of Stars (was RE: [FT] Size of "Countries" in FT)

7 posts ยท Nov 27 1998 to Nov 29 1998

From: Moody, Danny M. <DMoody@b...>

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:28:22 -0600

Subject: Loactions of Stars (was RE: [FT] Size of "Countries" in FT)

On Friday, 27 November 1998 12:01, Thomas Barclay
> [SMTP:Thomas.Barclay@sofkin.ca] wrote:

"ChView is intended as a three-dimensional aid to: viewing some of the
nearer stars of our galaxy; navigating the distances between them; accessing
basic information (and updating what we know); and, hopefully, having some
fun. Data files updated to Hipparcos distances currently provide nearly 8,500
stars and other celestial objects believed to lie
within 150 light-years (ly) of Earth, in a 300-ly diameter sphere.
Future plans include modules for selecting a star (or multiple star system)
and, based on available data and known astronomical relationships, for
creating your own star system (of planets, moons,
asteroids, Kuiper belt, Oort cloud/cometary halo, and even human
colonies or space communities), for voyaging in faster-than-light (FTL)
"starships", and the like."
It can be found at http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/chview/.

The latest CHView data files use the Hipparcos data - the most recent
and most accurate wrt distances and location of stars.

This is a listing of all stars <10 ly from Terra:

> From To Distance

None of them, except for ACent, would make really good sites for habitable
planets.

At 15ly, you get a only couple useful systems (Tau Ceti, 61 Cygni). At 25ly,
you get a good number (Xi Ursae Majoris, etc), maybe about a dozen and a half.

So, I would postulate this (assuming that most worlds are earth-type (to
allow more DSII games)):

Core Worlds: Sol (G2V) Centaurus (G2V) Barnard's Star (M3V)

Inner Colonies: (out to about 25ly from Sol)
        includes-
Beta Hydri (G1IV) 61 Cygni (K3V) Tau Ceti (G8V) Delta Pavonis (G5V) 82 Eridani
(G5V) Procyon (F5V) Xi Bootis (G8V) Xi Ursae Majoris (G0V)...and others

Outworlds: (worlds beyond 25ly from Sol)...other worlds

It would not be to difficult to whip up a CHView file with systems labled for
FT. The only question that realy needs to be answered is:
what is the speed/endurance of FT's FTL drives?

vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85
---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.

From: Moody, Danny M. <DMoody@b...>

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:47:08 -0600

Subject: Loactions of Stars (was RE: [FT] Size of "Countries" in FT)

> On Friday, 27 November 1998 14:18, Thomas Barclay

From: Moody, Danny M. <DMoody@b...>

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:26:55 -0600

Subject: RE: Loactions of Stars (was RE: [FT] Size of "Countries" in FT)

On Friday, 27 November 1998 16:44, Thomas Barclay
> [SMTP:Thomas.Barclay@sofkin.ca] wrote:

> > Yep - 50ly gives us about 1100 stars (that is individual stars -

Lots and lots of resource systems (asteroid mining systems, etc). Many of
these systems will be the ones wholly owned by corporations. Also, military
systems, strategically placed between more inhabited systems.

> Do a lot of these stars have 'more science-ish' names like DM +18 456

Yes, and no. Sorry, too much of the astrophysicist in me coming out
;-).

Most stars have no real name (like Sirius, Deneb, etc), just a catalog number.
Most of the bright stars that do have proper names are Arabic. Most common
names are based upon the position of the star within the
original Greek constellations -- which we refer to using Roman
translations of the Greek names (ain't astronomy fun?). Many bright stars
lying within constellations have Bayer designations using the Greek alphabet
(from Alpha to Omega, generally by decreasing brightness
- eg Alpha Centauri is the brightest star in the Centarus constellation,
Beta Centauri is the next brightest, etc) and/or a Flamsteed number
(beginning with 1, based on position in its constellation from left to right
as seen from Earth's northern hemisphere) and the genitive of the Latin
constellation. (For example, the star "Keid" in Eridanus is more commonly
known in the United States as Omicron2 or 40 Eridani A, where the number 2
indicates that there is another star in Eridanus designated Omicron1 and where
the following letter "A" designates this star as the "primary" or most
luminous star of a multiple star system.) In addition, many variable stars are
also designated with capital letters (e.g., R or RR) in front of the Latin
genitive for the nearest constellation.

Stars are also designated with catalogue numbers. While some begin with the
cataloguer's last name (e.g., Ross or Wolf), most use just the first letter of
the name(s), or some other abbreviation, to save space. Examples include:

AC-Alvan Clark
ADS-Aitken Double Star
BS,HR-Bright Star/Harvard Record
DM: BD/B;CoD/CD/C;CP(D)/P-Bonner/Cordova/Cape Photographic
Durchmusterung
FK5-Fifth Fundamental
G,GD,GR-Giclas/white Dwarf/Red
Gl,GJ,NN-Gliese/& Jahreiss/Not Numbered
HD-Henry Draper
Hip-Hipparcos
Kui-Kuiper
L,LB,LDS,LFT,LHS,LP,LTT,BPM-Luyten/faint Blue/Double
Star/Five-Tenths?(1955)/Half Second/Palomar/Two-Tenths/Bruce Proper
Motion
PPM-Position & Proper Motion
SAO -Smithsonian Astronomical Observatory
San,SS,Steph -Sanduleak/Stephenson
Sm-Smethells
Tyc-Tycho
USNO-U.S. Naval Observatory
V -Variable star or Vyssotsky
VB-Van Biesbroeck
Wo-Woolley

So, that star labled p Eridani is also known as: HR486* (from the Havard
record bright star catalog) Gl66A (from the Gliese dwarf catalog) Hip7751
(from the Hipparcos data) HD10360
C-56 329
P-56 329
SAO232490 according to what catalog you are looking at. Unfortunately, there
is no really good cross reference of names between catalogs. The best you
could do is look up a star according to RA and decl in each catalog.

However, I do have a small cross reference list (a couple of hundred stars)
somewhere. I'll have to find it.

> Now, this data is 85% of what I've been looking for lately. You

The CHView data has this already in it.  Snag the 50ly-h.zip file for
all stars within 50ly of Terra.

> > > Does this agree with what Jon T posted today or last night?

Go for it! Its all from CHView, which is all from the Hipparcos data, which is
all public domain. Ain't science grand?

You can get the actual Hipparcos data at
http://astro.estec.esa.nl/SA-general/Projects/Hipparcos/hipparcos.html
However, IIRC, the raw data approaches 60mb in size. There's some neat search
utilities that runs through the web that allows you to sort through the data.

I am in the process of hacking together a CHView file of the main worlds for
the main powers, incorporating your list. I figure the main world will be
habitable (mostly around G stars), then do some close packing of spheres to
determine what stars each might assert control over.

> Agreed. I think the drive they are looking at is something which

Right. Not supprising, really, its about what I expected from him.

> > Nope, my UPP as determined by Greg Porter at GenCon96.

I have the UPP test from GenCon somewhere - let me dig it up.

> > > (I love Traveller!).

We have a campaign on temp hold right now: we've lost three players and it
need restructuring. I'm about to start up an Ars Magica game, then back to
Trav.

> and a source of comedy for all. :)

Aren't all Vargrs?

> "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes

Y'know, this is so true?

vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85
---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.

From: Ground Zero Games <jon@g...>

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:09:33 +0000

Subject: RE: Loactions of Stars (was RE: [FT] Size of "Countries" in FT)

[snip]
> Agreed. I think the drive they are looking at is something which

Funnily enough, the theories of Jump Drive in the "Official" background is one
thing that we HAVE defined and explained in some detail, as published in the
FTFB (Fleet Book vol.1). Of course, that doesn't prevent anyone from using
Warp Drives, Jump Points, Jump gates, Alderson Points, Infinite Improbability
Drives, Ludicrous Speed Drives or anything else for that matter if they
prefer...:)

From: Michael Brown <mwbrown@s...>

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 08:54:03 -0800

Subject: RE: Loactions of Stars (was RE: [FT] Size of "Countries" in FT)

OH MY GOD!! they went Plaid!

[quoted original message omitted]

From: Thomas Anderson <thomas.anderson@u...>

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:25:23 +0000 (GMT)

Subject: RE: Loactions of Stars (was RE: [FT] Size of "Countries" in FT)

> On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Moody, Danny M. wrote:

well, the gliese 3 data (www.clark.net/~nyrath has a copy somewhere)
does list the gliese, durchmusterug, giclas and a bunch of other codes, and
has some real names, like APL Cen for alpha centauri. it's not much to go on,
though.

Tom

From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@a...>

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:50:07 -0800

Subject: RE: Loactions of Stars (was RE: [FT] Size of "Countries" in FT)

GREEK ALPHABET AND ABBREVIATIONS
--------------------------------------
Alpha ALP Nu NU Beta BET Xi XI Gamma GAM Omicron OMI Delta DEL Pi PI Epsilon
EPS Rho RHO Zeta ZET Sigma SIG Eta ETA Tau TAU Theta THE Upsilon UPS Iota IOT
Phi PHI Kapppa KAP Chi CHI Lambda LAM Psi PSI Mu MU Omega OME

CONSTELLATION NAMES AND ABBREVIATIONS ( remember, use the Genitive name) Name
Genitive Abrv Meaning
---------------------------------------------------------
Andromeda Andromedae And Chained Maiden Antlia Antliae Ant Air Pump Apus
Apodis Aps Bird of Paradise Aquarius Aquarii Aqr Water Bearer Aquila Aquilae
Aql Eagle Ara Arae Ara Altar Aries Arietis Ari Ram Auriga Aurigae Aur
Charioteer Bootes Bootis Boo Herdsmen Caelum Caeli Cae Chisel Camelopardalis
Camelopardalis Cam Giraffe Cancer Cancri Cnc Crab Canes Venatici Canum
Venaticorum CVn Hunting Dogs Canis Major Canis Majoris CMa Great Dog Canis
Minor Canis Minoris CMi Little Dog
Capricornus         Capricorni          Cap     Sea-goat
Carina Carinae Car Keel Cassiopeia Cassiopeiae Cas Queen Centaurus Centauri
Cen Centaur Cepheus Cephei Cep King Cetus Ceti Cet Whale Chamaeleon
Chamaeleontis Cha Chameleon Circinus Circini Cir Compasses (art) Columba
Columbae Col Dove Coma Berenices Comae Berenices Com Berenice's Hair
Corona Australis    Coronae Australis	CrA	Southern Crown
Corona Borealis     Coronae Borealis	CrB	Northern Crown
Corvus Corvi Crv Crow Crater Crateris Crt Cup Crux Crucis Cru Cross (southern)
Cygnus Cygni Cyg Swan Delphinus Delphini Del Dolphin Dorado Doradus Dor
Goldfish Draco Draconis Dra Dragon Equuleus Equulei Equ Little Horse Eridanus
Eridani Eri River Fornax Fornacis For Furnace Gemini Geminorum Gem Twins Grus
Gruis Gru Crane (bird) Hercules Herculis Her Hercules Horologium Horologii Hor
Clock Hydra Hydrae Hya Water Snake (female) Hydrus Hydri Hyi Water Snake
(male) Indus Indi Ind Indian Lacerta Lacertae Lac Lizard Leo Leonis Leo Lion
Leo Minor Leonis Minoris LMi Little Lion Lepus Leporis Lep Hare Libra Librae
Lib Balance Lupus Lupi Lup Wolf Lynx Lyncis Lyn Lynx Lyra Lyrae Lyr Lyre Mensa
Mensae Men Table Mountain Microscopium Microscopii Mic Microscope Monoceros
Monocerotis Mon Unicorn Musca Muscae Mus Fly Norma Normae Nor Square (rule)
Octans Octantis Oct Octant Ophiuchus Ophiuchi Oph Serpent Bearer Orion Orionis
Ori Hunter Pavo Pavonis Pav Peacock Pegasus Pegasi Peg Flying Horse Perseus
Persei Per Hero Phoenix Phoenicis Phe Phoenix Pictor Pictoris Pic Painter
Pisces Piscium Psc Fishes
Piscis Austrinius   Piscis Austrini	PsA	Southern Fish
Puppis Puppis Pup Stern (deck) Pyxis Pyxidis Pyx Compass (sea) Reticulum
Reticuli Ret Reticle Sagitta Sagittae Sge Arrow Sagittarius Sagittarii Sgr
Archer Scorpius Scorpii Sco Scorpion Sculptor Sculptoris Scl Sculptor Scutum
Scuti Sct Shield Serpens Serpentis Ser Serpent Sextans Sextantis Sex Sextant
Taurus Tauri Tau Bull Telescopium Telescopii Tel Telescope Triangulum
Trianguli Tri Triangle Triangulum Australe Trianguli Australis TrA Southern
Triangle Tucana Tucanae Tuc Toucan Ursa Major Ursae Majoris UMa Great Bear
Ursa Minor Ursae Minoris UMi Little Bear Vela Velorum Vel Sails Virgo Virginis
Vir Maiden Volans Volantis Vol Flying Fish Vulpecula Vulpeculae Vul Fox