John the indefatiguable said:
OK, I'm sick of the damn 2LTs (Subalterns for you Brits) sitting on their side
of the board immobile, next to the EW guy and "leading" via FM.
[Tomb]: Quite. Though the presence of
snipers is also a cure. "He's on his own! Must be the ossifer!"
1)Use the varient PSG rules,
[Tomb] You might mean some rules from
http://www.stargrunt.ca/rules/rules_index.
htm
<snip>
2)Simulataneous Movement/Commo
permits LTs and PSGs to move while passing an activation. Reduced move
(4"/6"/8", instead of 6/8/12), and cannot do
simultaneous movement if he has been fired on since his activation in the
previous turn. Once he is stuck in, his attention is a bit more distracted.:)
[Tomb]: Little clunky given you'd have to
track when he was fired on last turn. How about instead relating this to
suppresion?
3)Tagalong. An officer or PSG can 'tag along' with a squad. Tagging along
makes a leader part of the squad for movement purposes and exposes him to a
chance of being hit when the squad is fired on. If a leader is tagging along,
he can only use 1 action and the only thing he can do with that action is
Communicate (to include passing activations).
[Tomb] By making my leaders individuals
(visit the above URL), they acquire the ability to join and separate from a
regular squad merely by declaring it so (see SG2 rules on individual figures).
<snip>
5)A unit being led by an LT or PSG of quality 2 or better in declared "Follow
Me" automatically adds 1 to all Confidence Checks.
[Tomb] I said use the better of their
leadership or that of the original squad leader. Don't think that's enough?
Are you more confident having two competent senior NCOs or a Lt. looking over
your shoulder (as a Pvt) or with one? (Or are you just more nervous....)
[Tomb] You also don't cover the lowering
of confidence that happens when the new green Lt. comes over and starts
issuing bad orders to the reasonably competent NCO..... (This could be a
MINUS).
[Tomb] Perhaps the answer is to always
use the leadership of the senior leader when multiple leaders are temporarily
in a squad.
6)If a unit is fired on during or immediately after a bonus activation passed
via Follow Me, the leader counts as 3 soldiers for purposes of determining
chance of being wounded if the fire is effective. IE, if an LT is leading an 8
man squad and they get fired at, instead of a 1 in nine chance, he has a 3 in
11 chance.
[Tomb] I know why you suggest this, but I
suggest that this might not be as obvious in the GZG period and additionally,
from a mechanical perspective, things in a turn are supposed to be (loosely)
simultaneous, so this thing of "after" is kind of a problem to my mind.
> [Tomb] Perhaps the answer is to always
Part of the SGT's job is to say to the LT, "Well, yessir, that's one way, or
you could do {insert much better plan] instead. What are your orders, sir?"
So if your LT is paying attention, you may get to use the SGT's
> Laserlight wrote:
> Part of the SGT's job is to say to the LT, "Well, yessir, that's one
...and the lower the LT's rating, the lower the chance that he'll listen...
So does the LT have to make or fail a leadership test to use the SGT's
leadership instead?
> Laserlight wrote:
> So if your LT is paying attention, you may get to use the SGT's
[quoted original message omitted]
How about "roll QD to exceed Leadership"? If your leader is a Yellow 3, you're
in a world of hurt.
[quoted original message omitted]
> --- Michael Llaneza <maserati@earthlink.net> wrote:
BOTH!!! He needs to understand that his plan is
'less than perfect' and then defeat his EGO.
Bye for now,
Aren't you lads getting too granular here?
I'd have thought that if the guy had a 1, he'd clearly be soliciting
information from his staff on ideas. If he was a 2, he'd ask occasionally or
usually not but was still pretty good. If a 3, well, Butter Bars have to die
every so often...
> --- Flak Magnet <flakmagnet72@yahoo.com> wrote:
Not really necessary.
One of the best LTs I've ever met had a career that started in the Navy
Reserve, followed by about 4 years as an Army Supply Sergeant. He's a damn
good engineer officer now.
I will point out that I've only met one dud prior service officer. And he was
prior service MP, which explains a LOT.
The best Officers/Lieutenants generally come from prior enlisted service
in my experience. That said, it is my firm belief that prior enlisted service
IN THE BRANCH YOU WANT A COMMISSION IN should be a prerequisite for getting a
commision as an officer.
--Flak
> On Mon, 2002-04-15 at 12:24, John Leary wrote:
> --- Flak Magnet <flakmagnet72@yahoo.com> wrote:
There's MPs and then there's MPs.
There are MPs which are good cops.
There are MPs which are good soldiers.
There are MPs which are both.
There are more MPs which are neither.
The attitude "Scooter" brought from the MP Corps was a very negative one. As
an MP he might have been a good troop, and might have made a good MP officer.
He
wasn't combat-oriented is the best way I can describe
it. Further, he had not developed a sense of how to
look out for his troops--like more than a few MPs, he
spent a lot of time watching for a chance to screw over soldiers.
> --- Laserlight <laserlight@quixnet.net> wrote:
IF there is time to discuss it in Committee. When it's "Fuck, that machine gun
nest is tearing up 2nd Squad. 1st Squad, follow me!" there's less time for a
debate society. You smack the LT around re: the plan back in the planning
stages. When you're fighting you don't have time.
> At 10:45 AM -0700 4/15/02, John Atkinson wrote:
In other words he was still a cop and wasn't a leader in spite of the career
change.
> At 3:08 PM -0400 4/15/02, Flak Magnet wrote:
Well, in basic form a leader has an entirely different job than an MP. MPs are
basically Cops. They enforce general rules and regs as well as handle traffic
direction and other organizational issues.
A leader leads by dealing with problems in an entirely different way than MPs
are likely to. Sometimes he glosses over problems or handles them in his own
way. Leaders should ideally be looking out for the good of their unit and
making sure they are able to best accomplish their mission.
Again, it sounds like Scooter is still working as a cop.
Explain that comment, you have one other MP on this list and I am a former MP.
I'm very curious to hear you expand on that statement.
> On Mon, 2002-04-15 at 13:22, John Atkinson wrote:
> IF there is time to discuss it in Committee. When
I think that it what the target priority rule is for. I understand its no
quite the same (understatement mode in overheat) but that's kinda what its
for, forcing the player into a decision
> On 15-Apr-02 at 14:07, Flak Magnet (flakmagnet72@yahoo.com) wrote:
> When troops are screwed over, they think of the MP's that caught them
If the MP thinks of his job as catching people in wrongdoing then they can be
great MPs. If they carry that over into being an officer they will be
atrocious officers.
So in all reality, "Scooter" coming from prior service as an MP had less to do
with him being a dud than his failure to be a good leader.
MP's don't screw over other troops, troops screw themselves over. It's a
shallow associative relationship:
When troops are hungry, they think of the Mess Sgt.
When they need new gear, they think of the Supply Sgt.
When they have to walk because they're ride broke down, they think of the
Motor Sgt.
When troops are screwed over, they think of the MP's that caught them in the
wrongdoing. Wah.
--Flak
> On Mon, 2002-04-15 at 13:45, John Atkinson wrote:
> --- Flak Magnet <flakmagnet72@yahoo.com> wrote:
> MP's don't screw over other troops, troops screw
> When troops are screwed over, they think of the MP's
A lot depends on the unit/community, too.
Many's the time I got picked up by our MPs in Giessen. Not busted for Drunk in
Public like it would be here at Hood, but "Hey man, you don't look like you're
going to make it to the barracks. Get in the back."
and it never made the blotter. Our MPs were _our_
MPs. Here at Hood it's a lot more... adversarial.
Of course, it came out that our MPs were also running a heroin ring and 23
guys out of 2 platoons got arrested. Take it for what it's worth.
The biggest part of the equation is simple: Line troops have an impression of
all support troops based on exactally one thing. How well do they take care of
line soldiers? A PAC clerk, finance weenie, cook, or anyone else who solves a
problem a line doggie has gets promoted to "Yeah, he's still a pogue, but at
least he's good at his job." MPs don't solve problems for troops except in
unusual circumstances.
> --- Ryan M Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com> wrote:
More or less.
I got some in return. Last night I was in Germany, I got messily drunk,
cockblocked him all over the bar, and to top it off puked on a buddy of his.
What were they going to do? Bend my dogtags and send me to Ft. Hood?
> --- Thomas Barclay <kaladorn@magma.ca> wrote:
> 1)Use the varient PSG rules,
Well, yeah.
> 2)Simulataneous Movement/Commo
Seconded. Change it to "movement if he has been suppressed and is still in
line of sight of enemy units."
> 5)A unit being led by an LT or PSG of
Nope. Personal leadership is a major factor in combat. The presence of junior
officers frequently prompts troops to action.
It's what they pay 'em for.
> Are you
No one's looking over anyone's shoulder. That's 3 rating management, not 1 or
2 rating leadership. The LT picks up his rifle, yell's "Let's Go!" and leads
by personal example, generally by moving out towards the enemy.
This is why they are more likely to get killed, and do get killed in rather
high numbers. Their job is to act as heros.
Even the worst troop is going to respond--unless he's
got really low mission motivation.
> [Tomb] You also don't cover the lowering
Having to use the 3 leadership is already bad.
> [Tomb] Perhaps the answer is to always
I'd run off the squad leader's leadership if the officer is just tagging
along. If he's actively leading, then use his. I like the bonus for the sort
of situation I have in mind.
> [Tomb] I know why you suggest this, but I
It is alway obvious when some guy starts to charge and the rest of the squad
follows. Whether he has the
rank or not, he _is_ the leader and is inherently more
vulnerable.
> mechanical perspective, things in a turn are
If you attempt to close assault and rolled the dice resulting in your stopping
in the open 2" from my squad, then my next activation is light it up, then
this argument would not save you from rolling a d4 as range band dice. While
there is a fig leaf to simultaneous actions, in Reality as represented in the
rules, things happen sequentially.
On 15 Apr 2002 13:32:20 -0400 Flak Magnet <flakmagnet72@yahoo.com>
writes:
> The best Officers/Lieutenants generally come from prior enlisted
Idea has merit but not likely to happen, especially in any military with an
"Academy" in it.
Gracias,
> On Mon, 2002-04-15 at 15:03, Roger Books wrote:
I never though of it that way when I was in. I though of it as keeping order.
"Assist, Protect, Defend." and all that. Catching people in wrongdoing was one
of the ways we could protect everyone else from those scrotes we were
catchin'.
In that respect, I was more of a "help an old lady, get the cat out of the
tree and chase the kids who were smoking out from behind the PX"
kind of MP rather than a "Catch the speeders, bust the bad-guy" kind of
MP. I never failed to do my duties, but the focus and intent was on helping
and protecting for me.
> If they carry that over into being an officer they
100% agreement on that point.
> Roger Books
> On Mon, 2002-04-15 at 20:47, Glenn M Wilson wrote:
> --- Glenn M Wilson <triphibious@juno.com> wrote:
> Idea has merit but not likely to happen, especially
Some of the best officers out there came through the Point.
Some of the worst officers out there came through the Point.
I've never met a merely mediocre or simply adequate officer from an Academy
background.
> --- Glenn M Wilson <triphibious@juno.com> wrote:
> Idea has merit but not likely to happen, especially
Some of the best officers out there came through the Point.
Some of the worst officers out there came through the Point.
I've never met a merely mediocre or simply adequate officer from an Academy
background.