I've updated the NSO document for the GZG universe for everyone's pleasure. A
copy has been supplied to Brian Bell for his web site. I encourage anyone
interested to read it and make comments and give me further information to add
to it. After Havoc XIV (this weekend) I will begin laying out my Mercenary
Campaign and I will write up a special treatment on the Mercenary rules of war
and perhaps give notes on notable mercenary units.
--Pete
(See attached file: NatStateGZG.html)
What about the United States Of Antartica, Over the years the various factions
on Antartica decided not to fight each other but to collaborate to tame the
wilderness. The harsh environment has a strong influence on building a hardy
and resource rich state, with large areas and resources suitable for space
exploration. They became feared throughout known space by their distinctive
blue and white ships and their tenacity in battle. They made it a policy to
colonise the fringe ice worlds as they had vast experience and technology in
that area. Their first colony on Europa paved the gateway to their expansion
throughout human space.
That sounds good. I always laugh when I hear a planet described by as having a
single environment like "Ice World" or "Desert World"! I think you
overestimate their fearful reputation a but, but perhaps that is reflective of
their national pride.
--Pete
> Tim Jones Wrote:
What about the United States Of Antartica, Over the years the various factions
on Antartica decided not to fight each other but to collaborate to tame the
wilderness. The harsh environment has a strong influence on building a hardy
and resource rich state, with large areas and resources suitable for space
exploration. They became feared throughout known space by their distinctive
blue and white ships and their tenacity in battle. They made it a policy to
colonise the fringe ice worlds as they had vast experience and technology in
that area. Their first colony on Europa paved the gateway to their expansion
throughout human space.
tim jones
On Wednesday, April 22, 1998 2:56 PM, Peter Mancini
> [SMTP:Peter_Mancini@onesource.com] wrote:
In the case of Europa though its true. But its a bit of a cliche I admit.
Looking at our own solar system though quite a few of the solid planetary
bodies seem to have a
very pretty uniform environment. Mars - cold desert, The Moon - airless
desert, Venus - hot C02
inferno. Only good ol earth has decent environmental range.
> I think you overestimate their fearful reputation a but, but perhaps
I see them as being the cold version of the fremen (as in Dune)
> Tim Jones <Tim.Jones@Smallworld.co.uk> wrote:
> What about the United States Of Antartica, Over the years the various
There's a good idea in here somewhere. I disagree that harsh envinronments
make for resource rich states. The additional development costs, from
sheltered habitats to imported foods to temperature stress on equipment, makes
for hardy people but poor cash flow. The exception might be when a VERY
valuable resource is present.
However, since Antartica has been the focus of multinational efforts, there's
no reason not to say that other harsh envonronments in space would be given
similar attention.
I like the idea of harsh planets - perhaps only valuable for scientific
research - with small multi-national science stations. Meanwhile, the
ships of otherwise hostile nations eye each other warily from orbit. This
could be the basis for generation of some very interesting scenarios.
> Schoon wrote:
> There's a good idea in here somewhere. I disagree that harsh
You mean like "spice" :-)
Enjoy,
Cold Fremen???? Hmmmmm <wheels turn, light bulb lights>
> On Wednesday, April 22, 1998 2:56 PM, Peter Mancini
The Earth's temperature only ranges about 120C. I would say that it is the
relatively narrow environmental range that makes life possible. The key
ingredient of course is water. The temperature hovers around the melting
point, yet never reaches the boiling point in the atmosphere. I'm sure there
are other prerequisites for life, but water is likely the most important.
> I think you overestimate their fearful reputation a but, but perhaps
When I first read this I thought "Hoth", not "Arrakis", both tales being among
the very best SF.
> tim jones
> At 16:05 22/04/98 +0100, you wrote:
Looking
> at our own solar system though quite a few of the solid planetary
I think our multiple environment types are largely due to the large amounts of
water lying about on the surface (oceans) and in the atmosphere, allowing
large heat transfers from place to place and temporarily (on a geological
scale) isolating particular regions. I should think that an Earth-like
planet on the way to becoming Venus-like might spend a long time (human
scale) as jungle-world, or a Mars-type planet might spend a long time as
a habitable (by specialists) desert world.
cheers Rob
Sean spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> Tim Jones <Tim.Jones@Smallworld.co.uk> wrote:
The fact is, in developed worlds, resources in easy to get spots get depleted.
Hence in the future, hard to get places may seem resource rich. Also,
resources are generated through huge natural processes and many tend to be in
hard to get to spots as a corollory of the way they are created.
> I like the idea of harsh planets - perhaps only valuable for
Ice station zebra-esque things leap to mind. Or the plot of the Thing
only played out with Kra'Vak or Sha'vas'ku or some other odious alien. Reminds
me of Traveller 'research stations'.
Tom.
/************************************************
> On Wednesday, April 22, 1998 2:56 PM, Peter Mancini
Yes, but surely the point is that all of these except Earth are outside the
life-zone of the sun, and therefore are not habitable without extensive
lifesupport and/or terraforming. I think that any "garden" world that is
habitable to humans without enviro support will by definition be
multi-environmental.
> Ground Zero Games wrote:
> >In the case of Europa though its true. But its a bit of a cliche I
Give the sun a couple of billion of years. As the sun goes to red
giant phase, the life-zone should move outward. If things work out
well, Jupiter's moons could be capable of sustaining life for a couple of
hundred million years if not longer. More than enough time for life to start,
evolve to sapience and move out amongst the stars when things get too hot (or
too cold when the sun starts to contract).
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:24:44 -0600, "Mark A. Siefert."
<cthulhu@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
> Give the sun a couple of billion of years. As the sun goes to red
The only problem with this theory is that there is a window of opportunity for
life to appear. The conditions on the planetary body have to be just right for
the complex molecules to develop into amino acids. Life on Earth was a
function of the early Earth environment. Heat and elements from the inner
Earth allowed molecules to develop into amino acids. The Earth was incredibly
inhospitable when life first formed, but the planet itself was (relatively)
new and incredibly active. The amino acids developed into life at about the
same time that the planet developed its atmosphere, thus the two coincidental
occurrances happened at once: development of life and development of a
protective and nurturing environment.
The problem with the life zone moving outwards is that most of the bodies in
the solar system developed at about the same time. As such, most of the hard
planets and planetoids have cooled. The conditions for forming amino acids and
a dense atmosphere are no longer present. It's possible that if there's some
sort of life on Io or Europa the expansion of the sun will maintain it. It
might also just raise the temperature enough to kill it off. If there's no
life there right now, it's unlikely that any will develop.
I also don't think the time limit is enough, either. Earth apparently took
about 3 billion years to develop life (the best estimates I've seen are that
the Earth is 4 billion years old and that life first began about 1 billion
years in). If this is the case, the expansion of the sun will warm the outer
planets for about an order of magnitude less than is necessary to develop
life.
On the other hand, if life is seeded in those places, it's entirely possible
for life to thrive. And there's always the possibility for displaced humans to
thrive in that area of the solar system, assuming we don't bugger up our
current environment to the point of extinction...
Mark spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> Give the sun a couple of billion of years. As the sun goes to
Or long enough for us to move to one of these moons and kill off whatever is
living there... (*grin*) (or perhaps not a grin after
all...)
> Later,
This is only if they evolve at a markedly accelerated rate (compared to us).
We've had life on Earth for approx 3 billion years and we still can't do it.
David Best
> ----------
> On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, BEST, David wrote:
> This is only if they evolve at a markedly accelerated rate (compared
OK, I was being optimistic (which is quite rare in my case). Later,
> The fact is, in developed worlds, resources in easy to get spots get
Poul Anderson had a GREAT science fiction story about just such a place in his
Polsoltechnic League series. It was in two books "Satan's World" and
"Mirkihm"<sp>. The main character learned about a free planetoid that would
pass within the gravitational field of a supernova. The nova would be
expelling tremendous amounts of heavy metals (in the 1950's
[60's?] story). The main character set up a mining colony on the planet
after it passed close to the nova, but still within the a habital zone. The
cost of mining it out of the zone would make it not profitable. Thus, it
provided a bonanza of scarce heavy metals for a few years.
Sorry if I screwed up the facts of the story. It has been over a decade since
I read it. But it left a lasting impression. Well worth the read if you can
find a copy.
> Brian Bell wrote:
Ummmmmm, not to nitpick, but I think that it was almost, but not quite like
that.
In SATAN'S WORLD, they discover a rogue planet that is about to make a close
pass by a large sun. This will thaw it out. This will make it ideal for
establishing large scale transmutation installations upon it.
Such an installation can take the Amazon river as input to the cooling
equipment, and turn it *all* into live steam with waste heat. Industrial scale
transmutation would totally ruin the ecology of an entire planet. Satan's
world is unique in that it has no ecology to ruin, but does have the volatile
elements (i.e., water and air) needed as heat sinks.
In MIRKHEIM, they discover a planet that used to be a gas giant, orbiting what
used to be a nova. Though the gas giant was reduced to something the size of
Earth, it was also plated with elements created in the nova's explosion.
Elements like rare transuranianics, which generally are not found in nature,
cannot be economically synthesized, but which have valuable properties.