With so many people commenting on the Kra'Vak being too powerful I thought I
would post some of the changes we made to the bugs. Some things increased
their power and others decreased their power. The "Class 10" weapons have not
been heavily play tested yet, but have worked out so far.
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Rail Guns:
(1) Rail Guns have lost their double damage ability.
[This change had the unexpected benefit of actually helping
speed play as well as balancing out the damage they can do.]
(2) The mass/cost of Rail Guns was changed to
class 1 mass 2 cost 4 class 2 mass 3 cost 10 class 3 mass 4 cost 20
Scattergun Charges:
(1) Scatterguns may only engage an enemy ship within 6"
[reducing this from 12" made them much more balanced]
(2) Scatterguns may engage any fighter group within 6"
[gave the bugs a little more fighter defense ability, they are
one shots after all]
(3) Scatterguns may engage any missile within 6" and destroy it on a 4+
[even the bugs need a missile defense and being a one shot it
needed to be good]
New Systems, I'm not sure who first proposed the idea of the mass caster; but
we thought it made good sense for the Kra'Vak.
(1) Mass Caster: The Mass Caster is a Kra'Vak device that throws out a cloud
of matter (sand or other matter) between the Kra'Vak and enemy ships. The
effect of the Mass Caster is to increase the armor (shield) level of the
Kra'Vak by one in that arc. The increase is in one arc only and lasts for one
turn. The Mass Caster is a one shot device only. The Kra'Vak player must note
down on the turn he wishes to use the Mass Caster which arc it will be
covering in his orders (this is of course before enemy orders are revealed for
that turn.) The Mass Caster goes off after movement and before any ships fire.
If a Railgun, Scattergun Charge, or Cannon Charge is fired through the same
arc as the Mass Caster then subtract 1 from the damage that would have been
caused by that weapon. The Mass Caster takes up 1 mass and costs 10 points.
(2) Cannon Charge This device is closely related to the Scattergun. Unlike the
Scattergun the Cannon is made up of only one solid projectile, rather than
many small projectiles. It is a one shot weapon and is used for anti ship
work. The Cannon Charge will cause 1d6 damage (ignores shields) to any ship
targeted within 12". The Cannon Charge cannot engage fighters or missiles. The
Cannon Charge has the same firing arc as the Scattergun Charge. The Cannon
Charge takes up 1 mass and costs 10 points.
(3) Class 10 Scattergun: The Class 10 Scattergun is a spinal mount version of
the normal Scattergun. It fires a large number of solid shot projectiles that
spread out over the course of their trajectory, the game mechanics are much
like the Wave Gun. The Class 10 has a range of 30 inches. Over the first 10
inches move a 2 inch template, all ships hit take 3d6 damage. Over the
second 10-20 inches move a 3 inch template, all ships hit take 2d6
damage.
Over the last 20-30 inches move a 4 inch template and all ships struck
suffer 1d6 damage. All damage ignores shields. The Class 10, unlike other
weapons, does not have an unlimited amount of ammunition. Rounds must be
bought separately by the Kra'Vak player and represented on the ship (they can
be "destroyed" by threshold checks). Each `round' of ammunition allows the
ship to fire the Class 10 Scattergun one time. The Class 10 may fire every
turn. It may fire only directly forward of the ship. The Class 10 has a mass
of 8 and a cost of 30 points. A round of ammunition for the Class 10 takes up
1 mass and costs 5 points.
(4) Class 10 Railgun: The Class 10 railgun is an enlarged version of the
normal railgun. It is a spinal mount weapon, but may fire into the forward arc
(rather than directly ahead). You do not have to buy separate rounds for this
Class 10 weapon. The Class 10 Railgun has the same chance of hitting as a
normal Railgun and may target only one ship at a time (it is not an area
affect weapon). The Class 10 Railgun may only fire every other turn. The Class
10 Railgun will cause 10 points of damage if it hits. In addition to the
damage normally caused the Railgun will also cause the ship struck to suffer
an additional threshold check from the shock of such a single large projectile
hitting it. This additional threshold check is made on the current (after all
damage this volley) level. The Class 10 Railgun takes up 10 mass and costs 50
points to mount.
[A ship may have only one "Class 10" weapon and only a Capital ship may
mount one.]
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> Chad Taylor wrote:
> (4) Class 10 Railgun:
I only have one problem with the Class 10 Railgun in your rules. It's a ticky
little thing but might help.
First off, if the Class 10 Railgun fires such a large projectile, it would
have a limited supply of ammo. After all, that's one helluva rock! So, I would
think that a points cost for rounds, or a limit on the # or rounds it comes
with would be a appropriate. The thought of 10 points of damage coming every
other round, with an extra threshold check is quite frightening, and does
nothing to limit the power of the Kr'Vak.
The rest of the rules however, I like. I might try these rules, if I can get
my group to agree. Good work.
> On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Gary Ballard wrote:
> First off, if the Class 10 Railgun fires such a large projectile, it
Depends. Comparing with FASA's Leviathan rules, the Class 10 railgun is the
equivalent of the E class spinal mount; this fired a projectile weighing
some tons against ships in the million-ton range. No need for keeping
track of rounds there.
Drawing the comparision further, though: In Leviathan, the spinal mounts
usually cannot be fired at the same time as the rest of the offensive
weaponry - or, if you do, you can't manouver. Using the same firing
procedure as for Nova cannon or Waveguns could be an idea, perhaps...?
> On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Chad Taylor wrote:
> Rail Guns:
How do you represent Kra'Vak armour? After all, it was developed to protect
against rail guns, but only reduces the chance of double damage.
[Many good ideas snipped]
> (3) Class 10 Scattergun:
> The Class 10, unlike other weapons, does not have an unlimited
Why? If the Class 10 Railgun don't have to buy separate ammo (and Nova
Cannon/Waveguns certainly don't) I don't think this weapon should have
to either. Of course, it is very much smaller than a Wavegun (and doesn't risk
blowing up!), so additional ammo might be needed.
Regards,
> On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Oerjan Ohlson wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Chad Taylor wrote:
Ouch, good point. We only allow the Kra'Vak to use Kra'Vak tech so it
hasn't been a problem. Never had a Bug-v-Bug battle. I'm not sure what
I would suggest. Maybe, subtract 1 from the damage done by a Railgun per
level of armor on a d6 roll of 4+? Got me, any suggestions?. :)
> [Many good ideas snipped]
> Cannon/Waveguns certainly don't) I don't think this weapon should have
> risk blowing up!), so additional ammo might be needed.
For a couple of reasons. Mostly it was a game balance thing, I was looking for
some way to limit the strength of the weapon in the same way as the Wave Gun.
I couldn't see a "build up of energy system" and this is what I finally
settled on because it gave the Kra'Vak weapon a different feel from other
tech. Given the Range that the projectiles have to travel and the area they
would have to saturate I figured we were talking about a BUNCH of "something"
that probably shouldn't be unlimited. The C10 Railguns fired every other turn
because of the time it took to
reload/cool
down/etc.
> Regards,
> On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Gary Ballard wrote:
> I only have one problem with the Class 10 Railgun in your rules. It's
Hmm, if you go with buying the rounds like the Class 10 Scattergun you should
allow the C10 Railgun to fire each turn. You should probably lower the mass of
the weapon as well. I would also suggest that you get more than one round per
mass of ammo bought (probably two). The only reason I decided on the unlimited
ammo method (it would have been kind of cool for all Kra'Vak large weapons to
have ammo) was that......... will, I'm not really sure now to be honest:) I
guess I would go Something like:
C10 Railgun Mass 8 Cost 40 Ammo Mass 1 Cost 5
Gets two rounds per mass, may fire each turn.
If you think it is unbalanced then lower number of rounds to 1 per
mass and/or reinstate the one shot every other turn.
Tell you the truth I was more concerned with the C10 Railgun being seen as
not powerful enough. We actually limit all "spinal-mount" weapons to
80+
ton ships ("ships of the line").
Do a comparison though with the other Railguns and see what you think. Using
the original mass from FT you could get three class 3 and one class 1 Railgun
for the same mass as the C10. That would give you a possible 10 points every
turn at a cost of 40 pts. With the increased mass you get two class 3 and one
class one for possible 7 pts every turn (14 over two to the C10's 10) at a
cost of 44 pts. So far the C10 hasn't really done that much. Of course Jason
(Kra'Vak player) rarely splits his fire so whatever ship gets hit by the C10
usually got nailed with another 80 or so mass of
Death-n-Destruction.
Giving it some more thought I think I would agree with the limited
rounds/one per mass/fires every other turn scenario if the weapon system
is abused. I hadn't considered (and haven't seen) the C10 being the only
weapon to fire at one ship (Capital) and the rest of the guns firing at some
other target.
> Chad Taylor wrote:
I think my thought for balancing the C10 Railgun was more along the lines of
what if someone equips a fleets of the smallest ships possible with nothing
but these guns. Again it isn't a scary perhaps as the fleet of 100 escorts
with nothing but missles and as many of those as they can get, but still it is
scary. My thought was also that there shouldn't be a single weapon that can
cause that much havoc to ships big and small with its one shot and still fire
every turn in the game, no limits.(Or even every other turn). I haven't played
with it, you have so you would probably know better than me if it is
unbalanced. I would also say, based on the description of the way the thing
fires that it could only be fired when not manuevering, i.e. going straight
ahead. I play with people who don't try to abuse the rules most of the time,
but they know how to cook a system down to optimize forces if necessary.(Comes
from years of points shavings on Gurps:)) I will probably use some of these
rules for the campaign I'm trying to build up. They are good rules, good
enough for me to grab and modify to suit myself.
> On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Gary Ballard wrote:
> I think my thought for balancing the C10 Railgun was more along the
I agree with you on most accounts (I learned to min/max with Champions:)
.
I actually see this as being a problem with ALL of the spinal mount weapons
(Wave Gun, Nova Cannon). In one battle we saw a player field several (I think
four) 44 mass "capital" ships with Wave Guns, lvl 3 shields, and an A Batt. He
also fielded a few Nova Cannon armed ships of the same type. The poor Savasku
got clobbered (and redesigned). Immediately after words we agreed to the
following rules:
(1) A ship may only mount one spinal mount weapon
(2) A spinal mount weapon may only be mounted on an 80+ mass
ship (called a "Ship of the Line")
There are also several other house rules that discourage the use of a
bunch of Capital (80+) ships in a fleet, but that is all campaign fluff.
I agree completely that a C10 Railgun on several small Capitals would be a
disaster. I just think it goes with all of the large weapons however. Has
anybody else had a similar problem? Was anything done to correct the
situation?