Out of curiousity, how many people are going to bring kids (let's say, under
13) to the ECC? Noam mentioned bringing Zev along, who is 6. Was anyone else
thinking of taking kids? Would there be people who would take kids along if
they knew there were games for them?
It's not possible for me to make it there this year, but I might be able to
attend next year. The reason I'm asking is that, depending on the weekend, I
would be bringing a 6 year old next year (Logan just turned 5). I sold my
fantasy 25mm figures on eBay this year, but Target had a number of sets of
Mega Bloks on deep discount. I now have a number of orcs and knights that I
plan to use for playtesting FMAS as well as playing games with Logan. It
occurs to me that they would make great figures for kids games at a
convention. I was just curious if there would be enough interest to warrant
some serious game designing, potentially for next year?
Note that I'm sure that adults would enjoy these games, too. For those that
don't know, Mega Bloks are a Lego-compatable building block system. They
have an interesting aesthetic, though. The Dragon line comes with castles,
sailing
ships, and a Vorgan (read "orc") stronghold. These look _very_ cool. I
also
bought a number of their "Alien Agency" sets, which were on _serious_
discount. These I plan to use in Delta Green, a roleplaying game about the
Cthulhu Mythos and UFO conspiracies. They could also be used for FMAS. At some
point I plan to get at least one of the warships from the Dragon set, and I
already have a scenario in mind.
I'm just trying to gauge whether or not a kid game track would be of interest.
Or, for that matter, if adults wouldn't mind playing with
"toys"...
(which is sort of what we do all the time, anyway).
> Out of curiousity, how many people are going to bring kids (let's say,
I'd be happy with Lego pirates, but bear in mind that the time slots are 4
hours long. I brought my son a couple of years ago--he was, IIRC, 13 at
the time--and he did okay for about the first hour or 90min of an event,
but then he got bored.
I'd also be worried about minis and terrain lying around. I usually leave mine
in a case on the floor, and it would be easy for a 6 year old to get into.
> I'm just trying to gauge whether or not a kid game track would be of
Not that I'd make it, but as the father of a 6 year old I can say only one
thing...
Playmobil.
> I'd be happy with Lego pirates, but bear in mind that the time slots
For games, I was thinking of an hour to 90 minute long scenario, something
that doesn't take up too much time. Not sure what to do with the little
critters beyond that, other than perhaps have some modelling events (using
clay or just a whole bunch of other legos), or what.
I don't think a convention is going to be of much interest to anyone under 13
for any length of time. The idea was to have some kid themed games so that
they wouldn't feel out of place at the convention. If one parent is playing
and another is keeping the kids busy, it would give the parent with the kids
some time off.
> I brought my son a couple of years ago--he was, IIRC, 13 at
I'll admit that I've become bored in some FT convention games after the first
hour to 90 minutes. I think the trick with kids is to have a really tooled
down game system so that the action is fast and furious, or to keep the number
of players down so that each kid doesn't have to wait too long to do anything.
> I'd also be worried about minis and terrain lying around. I usually
That's true, though not a major problem with the Mega Bloks, as they have
their own terrain.
> Not that I'd make it, but as the father of a 6 year old I can say only
My 5 year old has some Playmobil figures, too! They have quite a range of
historical figures, from knights, to pirates, to American War of Independence,
to Napoleonic war, to American Civil War.
Logan has already started on his way to becoming a gamer. He has a bunch of
plastic army men that I glued to painted washers so that they would stand up
on the carpet. He already understands the reason for basing figures!
I ran a Lord of the Rings game using the GW rules (which for the
GW-phobes out there are better than you might expect) that held the
attention of two 12-year-olds (plus several 30+ year-olds) for the best
part of 6 hours on Saturday. It even managed to occupy my son Elliot (who's
only 3) for most of the day as well since I had him doing my dice
rolling for me (he was lousy at priority rolls but a demon at keeping Theoden
alive!). Part of the secret of that success was having easily recognisable
characters that the kids could relate to as well as a fairly straightforward
set of rules that kept the action rolling along at a decent pace.
> I'd also be worried about minis and terrain lying around. I usually
> That's true, though not a major problem with the Mega Bloks, as they
I wasnt thinking of the for-kids terrain & blocks, I was thinking of the
not-for-kids gear lying around.
G'day,
> I wasnt thinking of the for-kids terrain & blocks, I was
That really depends on the kid... well person of any age in my experience. My
kids (even Mei at 2) know to look but not touch whereas I've had guys in their
50s maul figs without a thought for what they were doing. As for concentration
spans, Lachy (nearly 10) would be fine all day, Janneke (7) would be good for
about 2 hours and Mei (2) would
be happy rolling dice for about 1/2 an hour. So once again depends on
the kid.
Cheers
Roger, that, Beth!
After several thefts of boxes of figures at local cons the old SCA'er in me
commented that you could lose a hand digging through other people's boxes
unasked. Some people are not sure I am kidding. I like the uncertainty in
"those" minds. <serious face> And I can neither confirm or deny that I am or
am not joking. <end of serious face> LOL!
But although the loss was traumatic for me as one of the (smaller) victims, I
much rather fear leaving stuff behind (I did once, Park Service apparently
threw it away) or people breaking things (I break enough of my own thank
you...) that I now have stuff on the table or locked up in the car.
Gracias, Glenn
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:10:10 +1100 <Beth.Fulton@csiro.au> writes:
I am keen to get more younger kids in the hobby(understanding I am only 21
myself) but my several exposures have been for the most part negative.
The biggest being RPGA, Living Greyhawk and the lot. Most of the kids I have
seen tend to rowdy, munchkins and generally little sh*ts.
One other place was at a local game day, right when Mage Knight was just
coming into existence. A local adult was trying to teach 5 kids and me how to
play the game. I enjoyed the game but ending up playing for the kids or
answering questions from them. Zero attention span.
Now all that being said, a well supervised kid i.e with responsible adult in
tow is a lot of fun at a gaming table. It works best if an adult is willing to
spend *lots* of 1 on 1 time with the kid, and keep them involved.
Some of my best games have included 7th and 8th graders who have
grognards for Dads (and a couple of Moms who have war game interests -
one even plays) and who are 'also playing' in the same game as Dad or Mom
[not always same side.] One Starguard game pitted two brothers (That
age range) against each other and the new to war games, younger brother edged
out his sibling in the last turn. Lots of explanations since the game was new
to both. Older GW playing brother learned why you don't rush a defense
position covered by Nekton Sonic Rifles, sonic grenade launchers and heavy
weapons... especially moving your laser MG into Short range in the process.
Since I (defender) was the Nektons the good news was that the younger sibling
seeing this ran his swamp boats on to the edge of the 'land' the positions
were on then assaulted the other wing while big brother's jump troops were
being ejected from the other flank. Having a single Power Armor Fire Team
didn't hurt either since the heavy weapons were busy shooting away from him
for two turns (all it took.)
That said, I see too many kids marginalized in team settings. In a micro
armor game the one kid was given the trash infantry (no vehicles/etc.)
and positioned on the extreme "off flank" all game. One shot (and only because
one of the US player saw the problem late in the game and rushed the
previously hyper cautious truck borne forces down the road towards that side
of town heedlessly; we had already obviously lost the game so the faux pas
wasn't that big a deal) was about all the kid (and one adult also marginalized
by the over focused German commanders) got in the whole 4 hour game.
Gracias, Glenn
"Half the Harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to
feel important. They don't mean to do harm - but the harm does not
interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are
absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." T. S. Elliot
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:21:26 -0800 (PST) Corey Burger
> <cburger@victoria.tc.ca> writes:
If there were a critical mass of kids, and interested adults, I could
definitely see a "kid's game".
The megablock/lego idea works for me, too. I recently had a 'giant
robot' FT-variant game with Zev and Benjamin (age 3.75), using Lego
robots. I think it worked pretty well, but I bet a dirtside or FMAS variant
would be more apropos for giant robots.
One of the reasons I'm only going for 2 sessions of the con is because
I won't be staying overnight. We're framing the day as a Father-Son
outing to play some games.
I'm also keeping in mind the length of the sessions. The Cinegrunt is
going to be new to both of us, and I think the role-play aspect of it
will be engaging. I plan to have some extra distractions on hand in case of
boredom. I might ask Rick Rutherford if Z can join in the painting workshop
(not so much for learning as for the change of pace). When he painted his
minis at home last year, he was quite responsible with the paints and brushes.
I understand Laserlight's concern about kids getting in to things
they're not supposed to. I'm not worried about Zev - I think he's got a
healthy respect for the property of others, and minis in general. But if it
did turn out to be a problem, or if the day just becomes too long, there's
always the car home. I think he's ready, but some things work out and some
don't.
> At 11:00 PM 1/26/2004 -0800, Allan Goodall wrote:
Absolutely. One of the things keeping me from attending cons is that I've
got three kids now - and leaving the wife alone with all of them for 4
days would be, ah, unwise. So if I could bring the oldest (6 now, 7 by the
time
the next ECC rolls around), that would help a -lot-, especially if there
were things like that for him to be involved in.
Collected quotes from the thread...
> Noam mentioned bringing Zev along, who is 6.
> Not that I'd make it, but as the father of a 6 year old
> My 5 year old
> As for concentration spans, Lachy (nearly 10) would be fine all day,
Granted, not everyone with kids is going to make it, but it -does- make
me think that this might be something to seriously consider in the future.
Have some events for the kids, set up a few computers to play on, and I'd
suggest the things that keep -my- 6 year old, Daniel, and his
neighborhood
friends busy for hours on end - toy swords and guns. The noise level
gets a little high sometimes, but still...
> > I wasnt thinking of the for-kids terrain & blocks, I was
I think it also depends on the environment in which the kid was raised. Logan
is _very_ good with my stuff. He desperately wants to play, which in
large part is what got me buying the Mega Bloks stuff. He's very careful with
my figures and terrain. I think he'll grow up to respect other peoples
miniature setups. He'll be far better than some people I've seen (though I've
been
pretty lucky at conventions).
Of course, when a kid gets bored then mischief often ensues.
> Granted, not everyone with kids is going to make it, but it -does-
Definitely! I'm glad I asked.
> Have some events for the kids, set up a few computers to play on, and
I have a small portable colour TV, too. We'll have something like a
Playstation 2 by that point. It wouldn't be a problem running DVDs or games
for the kids during the day (and run DVDs in the background at night: anime,
war movies, and science fiction flicks would be most appropriate).