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> On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Beth Fulton wrote:
> G'day Derk
G'day Beth (hope I get the accent sort of right, only had one week of practice
;))
I'll list some of the ideas I had, below. It's still in the 'random
collection of ideas-stage', so I'm afraid it isn't very well structured.
I see the Kh'iff as a people of poor desert/plains nomads, traditionally
hunters, who drift in large packs across the plains they inhabit. They have
little in the way of advanced technology, except for the gauss rifles
which prove to be of great help in hunting their tough-hided prey.
They are deeply religious people, who cannot accept the violation of their
lands for (fill in whatever cause of conflict you like). After their protests
went unheard, they picked up arms to defend what they see as
_theirs_.
- - Pack mentality
The Kh'iff evolved from a canine stock, with very much of a pack-like
social structure. Kh'iff are not great individualists, much preferring to do
things with their pack. The effect of this pack mentality is that Kh'iff
squads test as one motivation level lower than normal, when they cannot see
any other Kh'iff
squads (of their own pack/platoon??).
The sole exception to the above rule are their expert huntsmen/stalkers,
(snipers) who found the courage to face danger on their own, and hence do not
suffer the penalty. However, their 'difference' also caused them to
distance themselves from their birth-packs, and as a result, they cannot
attach to squads.
- - Command structure
Kh'iff lack the advanced communication networks that allow other
nationalities' officers to have such great impact on the fight. Their
communications disadvantage results in a +1 penalty to the leadership
value on all communication attempts. This penalty will never raise the
leadership value above 3. NOTE: This ONLY applies to communication, NOT to
other tests involving leadership value.
- - Equipment
The Kh'iff wear heavy hide coats, giving them an effective armour of D6 (or
would d8 be okay as well? d8 strikes me as a bit excessive, but I'm
curious what other people think?). I'm thinking of giving Kh'iff 8"/d8
movement rate, even in their robes... Although I'd imagine they'd slow down
faster in undergrowth.
Kh'iff infantry is armed with a long range gauss rifle (read, regular
gauss assault rifle, FP 2 - unless someone has a better suggestion), and
supported with automatic grenade launcher (the drum-fed weapon), and
gauss MG's. Their sniper have a highly accurate gauss sniper rifle.
- - Senses
Even though the Kh'iff have no technologically advanced sensors, they take
sensor rolls at a D8 at the first two range bands (due to their highly
developed sense of smell), and on a D6 at longer ranges if in their own
habitat, D4 otherwise.
- - EW
Yeah, rrrrright. However, I'd like the Kh'iff to have some ability to be
sneaky bastards. Any suggestions here?
- - Sneaky movement
Kh'iff suffer one less penalty due to group size, as they are used to hunting
with their fellow squaddies.
- - Close Combat
The Kh'iff are very sensitive to the weight of numbers. I'd like to give them
an extra penalty if outnumbered, and a bonus if outnumbering. Is this feasible
or does this wreck the system?
Well, that's the ideas I've had so far. I'm curious what you people think? So
far, I think they have more disadvantages than advantages, but I'm not too
bothered here, since I prefer to play scenarios anyway.
Cheers,
> I'll list some of the ideas I had, below. It's still in the 'random
Likewise, despite the fact that I've being using Kh'iff ever since they came
out which must be 10 or more years.
> I see the Kh'iff as a people of poor desert/plains nomads,
I had the same basic ideas about the Kh'iff - deeply religious, even
fanatical, slightly lower technology than the human norm. In my alternative
(non-GZG)
background
the Kh'iff had a multi-system STL "empire" when contacted by humans, the
humans at the time were going through an "aggressive expansion" phase and soon
surrounded and gobbled up the Kh'iff. The humans later split up into several
different groups and the Kh'iff allied with one of these ("The Covenant of the
Lord") however the original Kh'iff home world and about half their planets are
controlled by the major human government ("The Terran Commonwealth"). This
means that the Covenant are sponsoring "Free Kh'iff" forces against the
Commonwealth. I.e. Kh'iff can turn up as freedom
fighters/terrorist or
as large scale military forces. There are even some Kh'iff who have thrown in
with the Commonwealth (Kh'iff vs. Kh'iff).
> - - Pack mentality
H'mm to me they looked more like Aardvarks.
> The effect of this pack mentality is that Kh'iff squads test as one
I didn't do this as I thought that the fanaticism would overcome this, even to
the extent of making Kh'iff more likely to rush forward (Starting at
confident). I had not really given much thought to other stuff, I tend to
design Kh'iff vehicles as having basic systems for everything unless it's a
Covenant sponsored force.
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> On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Chris Downes-Ward wrote:
> >
Or more, I'd say. I bought my first denizen figs in november 1990, and the
Kh'iff were already there:)
Interesting stuff. Like you, i am contemplating having a bunch of humans throw
in with the Kh'iff (Want to paint the Denizen low tech marines at some point),
but I don't really plan on having the Kh'iff off their own dustball;)
Hmmm. I considered the 'religious fanatic' character, but decided against
making them banzai-human-wave types. Too easy ;) I thought they'd be
more fun in making them a bit more hesitating. However, the more I think of
it, the more I want to give them an edge if outnumbering their opponent:)
Cheers,
In message
<Pine.LNX.3.96.1010403093507.7003B-100000@derk.penguinpowered.com>,
> Derk Groeneveld writes:
I'll stick to the game mechanics here-- they're a doglike people. You
can build whatever background up around that.
> - - Pack mentality
:
> The sole exception to the above rule are their expert
Wolf packs have a clear-cut hierarchy, but there is sometimes violent
encounters for leadership. I'd maybe give them some sort of bonus for
communicating without a roll-- say, increase the range from 6" to 9"
or 12", especially if they're taking a hit on comm rolls due to low tech. This
is for scents, better hearing, etc... I'd also have the main "pack" take worse
morale rolls for losing a leader.
Perhaps the huntsmen are forced outside the pack because they pose a challenge
to the leadership. Force them to stay a certain distance from the pack leader,
or both lose an action during activation, warily watching the other for a
threat.
> The Kh'iff wear heavy hide coats, giving them an effective armour of
I think a base d6 would be good.
> curious what other people think?). I'm thinking of giving Kh'iff 8"/d8
This is what I did with my dog/cat Traveler figs (whatever those races
are).
> Kh'iff infantry is armed with a long range gauss rifle (read, regular
Seems like dogs have better vision than us. Perhaps give them a bonus to hit,
maybe only if the target unit moved this turn?
> - - Senses
Sounds good.
> - - EW
Downshift for others to detect them in hiding?
> - - Sneaky movement
? What rule is this?
> - - Close Combat
Well, the first thing is that DOGS SMELL FEAR! If they're within charge
distance of an enemy squad that is Shaken or worse, they have
to pass a reaction test (+0, Shaken; +1 Broken; +3 Routed) at the
start of their turn OTW they MUST CC that unit.
I like the numbers thing. Maybe they get a bonus if they combine their attack
with another squad.
> Well, that's the ideas I've had so far. I'm curious what you people
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> On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Andy Cowell wrote:
> In message
Yup:) Just some fluff, is all.
> > - - Pack mentality
I like the sound of that - I had a very vague idea in that direction,
and this sounds just right.
> Perhaps the huntsmen are forced outside the pack because they pose a
*grin* Neat.
> > The Kh'iff wear heavy hide coats, giving them an effective armour of
OK
> > curious what other people think?). I'm thinking of giving Kh'iff
OK
> > Kh'iff infantry is armed with a long range gauss rifle (read,
I'm a bit wary to directly touch the main combat mechanism; I'm not entirely
sure how big the impact will be. Another thought I had was giving them
slightly longer range bands?
> > - - Senses
Thanks:)
> > - - EW
Mmm:)
> > - - Sneaky movement
Ahh. I was referring to the neaky movement rules somebody published on the
net. look at the rules pages on www.stargrunt.com, I think it's there
somewhere.
> > - - Close Combat
Is this
> > feasible or does this wreck the system?
Ooo! I _like_ the concept. OTOH< I didn't want to make them into cliche
'they're alien therefore close assault monsters';)
> I like the numbers thing. Maybe they get a bonus if they combine
OK, got to think on that:)
Thanks for the feedback!
Cheers,
In message
<Pine.LNX.3.96.1010404003206.12187A-100000@derk.penguinpowered.com>,
> Derk Groeneveld writes:
You
> > can build whatever background up around that.
Fluff is good. Speaking of fluff, what about their elite caste, the Poo'dl
Kh'iff?;)
> > > Kh'iff infantry is armed with a long range gauss rifle (read,
That seems about the same-- a quality die shift up is the same as
extending the range bands by 2". Give them a quality die shift up when firing
at a unit that has already activated this turn and used an action to move.
> > > - - Close Combat
I didn't say they were any better at it.;)
Of course, any time their opponents feint in one direction, all Kh'iff squads
in line of site immediately run in that direction, and must
G'day Derk
> G'day Beth (hope I get the accent
Sounds good to me;)
> I see the Kh'iff as a people of poor
Did they develop these weapons themselves or do the "acquire" them?
> The Kh'iff evolved from a canine stock,
Not a bad idea, though even pack animals don't usually have a problem being on
their own, they're just ot as successful;)
> The sole exception to the above rule
They could also just be juveniles yet to find a pace of their own or exiled
old leaders, if so they could probably join a squad, but the squad would
need to take a reaction test each turn to see if they were allowed to stay.
> Kh'iff lack the advanced communication
That's fine, but they should probably also get a slightly longer range "no
comms required range", both for game balance and because they probably have
better senses and long range communication abilities.
> NOTE: This ONLY applies to communication,
I'd probably actually modify all leadership tests a little, if you don't
mind a little book-keeping. I'd give all leaders a -1 to their role, but
if they fail 3 times in a row (probably needs to be played a bit to get the
number right) then the leader is challenged and the squad spends a turn
sorting out whether the leader remains as is or changes (I'd just use a
standard leader replacement role here, if you get a "no shift in quality"
result then the old leader held firm, otherwise there's a new leader with the
appropriate new quality). If the old leader is given the boot, then he either
has to leave, or the squad has to take a reaction test to keep him around.
> The Kh'iff wear heavy hide coats,
I'd probably stick with D6.
> I'm thinking of giving Kh'iff 8"/d8
Sounds sensible.
> - - Close Combat
Sounds OK to me. Maybe they have to take a reaction test NOT to attack a
panicked unit. Maybe they could be rated as causing fear? There's also the
possibility that if they see a friendly squad go in then they'll stand a
higher chance of joining the close combat too (in which case I wouldn't give
them too much of an extra boost for greater numbers).
Cheers
Beth
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> On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Beth Fulton wrote:
> G'day Derk
Whew;) I have to visit your country again, sometime. Spent only a week in
Perth, and have a serious 'want to go back and see more' ache;) Did get to see
and photograph humpbacks though, which was absolutely great. Oh, and got to
beat Ozzies around the head with a sword;)
> >I see the Kh'iff as a people of poor
Acquiring, I'd imagine. Sort of a 'first things first' thing;)
> >The Kh'iff evolved from a canine stock,
Whoops. I think I woke up a biologist?;) I was mainly thinking that, under
stress situations, they'd look to their pack for support?
> >The sole exception to the above rule
Mmm. What did you think of the 'takes up one action of outcast and leader, if
within x inches' suggestion, made earlier?
> >Kh'iff lack the advanced communication
Yes, I like this suggestion. 9 inches sound fair? Or should it be more to your
mind?
> >NOTE: This ONLY applies to communication,
Mmm. Sounds like fun, but also sounds like it could be a good bit of work.
Something else I was thinking about; maybe a deceased leader should result in
two suppression markers instead of one, as the pack sorts out who's the boss
now?
> >The Kh'iff wear heavy hide coats,
I think we all pretty much seem to agree on this, then.
> >I'm thinking of giving Kh'iff 8"/d8
Do you think an extra table for dealing with terrain types is called for?
(What is difficult terrain, what is rough terrain, etc, for them?)
> >- - Close Combat
Hmmm. I didn't want to make them close combat monsters, too much. Seems too
easy to give this to anything that looks alien. On the other hand, a case CAN
be made for it.
I like the 'have to charge a panicked/shaken/broken unit' - test.
As for the 'seeing another cquad go in', I'm more leaning towards tweaking the
weight of numbers, here.
Cheers,
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Things got rather confused around here due to @home messing up - I could
not get to the email that was already on my home machine due to a network
faillure, and could only read/reply to new emails. I don't _think_ I
replied to this one yet, but may be going seriously demented;)
> On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Andy Cowell wrote:
> In message
You
> > > can build whatever background up around that.
Grrrr.;)
> > > > Kh'iff infantry is armed with a long range gauss rifle (read,
Ah; I thought you meant a bonus on both quality die and firepower die. Also,
that would mean they'd never roll a 1 again, greatly reducing the chances of a
miss at close range. etc etc. Anyway, that apparantly wasn't what you meant.
> > > > > - - Close Combat
Mmmm. I'm not entirely sure I want to go with this one. I guess this calls for
some serious playtesting.
Cheers,
G'day Derk,
> Oh, and got to beat Ozzies around the head with a sword ;)
Now was that a greater highlight than the HUmpbacks?;P
> Whoops. I think I woke up a biologist? ;)
Yes, but it depends on what you're defining as the pack. Is it the basic
squad (which is about the size of most successful mammalian hunting packs) or
some larger unit of organisation?
> Mmm. What did you think of the 'takes up
It works with the PSB that they are ex-leaders and thus maybe not so
innocent in their reasons for wanting to join a squad.
> Yes, I like this suggestion. 9 inches sound fair?
9" should probably work.
> Mmm. Sounds like fun, but also sounds
There is that problem.
> Something else I was thinking about;
The logic is good, but I'm not sure how it'd go in the game as suppressions
are such a critical thing. I'd try it and see.
> Do you think an extra table for
Not really, there's no real difference in the relative grades of terrain to
humans and canines...it'd be different if you were doing a hoofed animal or
something.
> Hmmm. I didn't want to make them
That's because it still our most deep seated fear...born of the days when that
was what we had to watch out for;)
> On the other hand, a case CAN be made for it.
Yep it is what you get for playing a canine alien race... we tend to associate
canines with close combat.
> As for the 'seeing another cquad go in',
Cool.
Have fun
Beth
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> On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Beth Fulton wrote:
> G'day Derk,
Mmm. Tough one! Well... I get to beat a kiwi around the ehad with a sword,
very regularly, and that's almost as good as beating up Ozzies... So I guess
it will have to be the humpback.
(look at
http://cc5127-a.deven1.ov.nl.home.com/~derk/pictures/vakantie/australie/
if you're interested in the humpback pics:))
> >Whoops. I think I woke up a
I was thinking platoon?
> >Mmm. What did you think of the 'takes up
Mmm. Driven out, have to hunt for themselves -> snipers? Works for me.
> >Yes, I like this suggestion. 9 inches sound fair?
Roger that.
> >Mmm. Sounds like fun, but also sounds
And one of the nice things about SG is minimum bookkeeping. Now to hide those
counters...
> >Something else I was thinking about;
Yup. then again, so are leaders;) I'll give it a go and see.
> >Do you think an extra table for
Okay...
> >Hmmm. I didn't want to make them
True, true...
> >On the other hand, a case CAN be made for it.
Then again, these look more like your average track-dog than like a
pitbull...
> >As for the 'seeing another cquad go in',
I'll try and post a summary of all the ideas, later today.
Cheers,