I have taken some look at a Jovian Cronicles to GZG conversation I was lookin
into running a jovian cronicles campign for our local role playing group...
The campign was to focus on the growing tension between the Jovian
Confederation and the
CEGA...
and to do the large space battles...i was thinking full thrust would be
perfect i had a few thoughts on the conversations...i'll post them when i find
them
> MR DAVID E PETERS wrote:
> Dear Anime Fans:
Dear Anime Fans:
I would like to change the subject here, I have talked about
doing a slower-than-light game using the GZG systems. I have been
looking at the Jovian Chronicles and I think it would be an interesting
conversion. There are fair number of ships, mecha figthers and exo-
skeletons. The Neu-Swabian ship figures would be good for the ships.
Plus StarGrunt II could be used for ground combat or for more detailed
boarding combat. I am planning to make modifications for fighting in the
vacuum environment.
I would like to get some feedback on this.
Sincerely
> Dear Anime Fans:
I don't know the anime but I have previously tried sytems fighting both in
3d vacuum and in/aroung spaceships in vacuum, boarding actions we used
to play a lot. Depending on your tech levels we ended up either blowing huge
holes in things to evacuate air (and hopefully crew) or sending in high tech
robotics which were counted as expendable, followed by heavy armoured troops
and then lighter armour, either way the casualty rate is horrendous if you
attack a military ship. Civilian ships are not worth wargaming as they don't
offer enough resistance to be fun. We used to play different types of boarding
actions, either the ship was 'dead in the water' and waiting to be boarded or,
the action was aggressive and quick to capture an active ship. IMO the best
'terrain' for boarding actions was the EE Space Hulk templates (I you can get
them chaep from the origional versions then try them, however, I'd be
surprised at anyone other than EE weenies (who probably bought and play the
the new version exclusively) who'd want to part with them.
Combat in vacuum depends again on your tech level, if you routinely use
lasers and caseless/recoiless amunition then you should have no problems
with recoil and or backwards movement on firing, however if you don't then you
need to use jet packs to satbilise the firer. Combat in vacuum is deadly,
there is no such thing as wounded, explosive decompression will quicly sort
that out for you, even a slight nick in the suit would remove the trooper as
they will be more concerned about survival than fighting. If you use EVA suits
then you ned to consider encumberance, although a trooper woun't be weighed
down by equipment they will be slowed down by the suit, you could try lowering
the range bands, penalising sensors, band shifts down in CC etc. If you are
using EVA power armour then most of these problems don't crop up as game play
is much simpler, although the challenge of EVA actions is less for the player.
These are just a few rambles, some of which I hope may be useful to you.
> On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Stuart Murray wrote:
> if you attack a military ship. Civilian ships are not worth wargaming
I don't agree. Just downgrade the attackers to sketchily-armed pirates
with an interest to keep the ship and loot intact. That should downscale
the action nicely.
> Combat in vacuum depends again on your tech level, if you routinely
Caseless ammo has nothing to do with the action type being recoilless.
Firearms do have major problems in space (mostly with lubrication of moving
parts), but those could be engineered around in a futuristic setting.
In any case, I find zip-n-zoom jetpacks highly questionable. Anyone with
their feet on a solid support (i.e. the ship hull) has the advantage in rapid
direction changes.
> Combat in vacuum is
IMO, a wounded trooper is pretty much always more concerned about survival
than fighting. But "explosive decompression" is a myth. You can survive even
hard vacuum for some time (it's not nice and may
result in permanent damage, but it's survivable) -- patching a suit
should a be routine operation for trained troops. You don't have to take
my word for it, ask NASA -- they've tried it (with monkeys I hope).
Ofcourse, if you *want* to simulate bad SF with little connection to reality,
that's another matter.
> Combat in vacuum is
It is? Huh, gee, news to me. 'Explosive decompression' is when you go from
pressurized to vacuum (or exceedingly low pressurized) in a very short period
of time. No, the person themselves do not *explode*; that part is myth, true.
> You can survive even hard vacuum for some time (it's not nice and may
So, just how long is 'for some time' in a vacuum? 10 seconds, 20 on the
outside? 15 seconds would be a long time to chew vacuum, and you're not going
to be in very good shape to do any suit patching. You'll lose consciousness
rather quickly.
Mk
Excerpts from FT: 13-Nov-97 Re: Jovian Chronicles GZG A.. by Just c. n.
in denial@sts
> So, just how long is 'for some time' in a vacuum? 10 seconds, 20 on
> From the sci.space.* FAQ, though admittedly a rather old copy:
HOW LONG CAN A HUMAN LIVE UNPROTECTED IN SPACE
If you *don't* try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a minute or
so is unlikely to produce permanent injury. Holding your breath is likely to
damage your lungs, something scuba divers have to watch out for when
ascending, and you'll have eardrum trouble if your
Eustachian tubes are badly plugged up, but theory predicts -- and
animal
experiments confirm -- that otherwise, exposure to vacuum causes no
immediate injury. You do not explode. Your blood does not boil. You do not
freeze. You do not instantly lose consciousness.
Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly "the bends", certainly some
[mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue)
start after ten seconds or so. At some point you lose consciousness from lack
of oxygen. Injuries accumulate. After perhaps one or two minutes, you're
dying. The limits are not really known.
This has been expanded upon in the sci.space.tech newsgroup, I think,
but I haven't been able to find any of the expanded versions -- not to
mention a recent FAQ. <sigh> Ah, well....
Later,
> On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, Mikko Kurki-Suonio wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Stuart Murray wrote:
Explosive decompression is not a myth - but it also isn't the only sort
of decompression.
If you get a bullet/laser hole in your pressure suit, you've got time to
patch it. If something rips your arm off, you probably haven't. If you're
unsuited in a ship that gets seriously holed and the pressure
drops to zero fast enough, you're _dead_.
The effects of rapid decompression include: bleeding from just about
everywhere (uncomfortable but not serious), major ear damage and pain
(very disorientating), probably eye damage, and (if you even _try_ to
hold your breath) ruptured lungs.
Explosive decompression, on the other hand, is fast enough that you can't
empty your lungs before they explode.
So, in summary, I agree with Mikko, but major damage may not _be_
patchable.
> You can survive even hard vacuum for some time (it's not nice and may
How long does the "airlock" sequence in 2001 last - a few seconds before
Bowman closes the outer door and hits the O2 flood valve? I'd assume that
most military or heavy worksuits would have self-sealing compounds
layered between the suit fabric to cope with smallish punctures.
Alternatively,
there is always the system they use in The Forever War - where a sharp
sphincter valve on the PA suit chops off a damaged limb and seals itself, then
pumps the casualty full of antishock drugs....;)
More seriously, I've thought before about doing a zero-G suit combat
game on the outer hull of a ship, where each figure has VERY limited fuel in
his maneuvering pack and uses vector movement.... could be fun, I think I can
feel a rules set coming on....:)
Jon (GZG)
> Mk
> Combat in vacuum is
When I mentioned explosive decompression I was referring to the suit the
trooper would be wearing rather than the trooper, a round makes a big hole, my
guess is that this would be more than enough to ruin the integrity of a suit,
unless it is compartmentalized, even then you have potential
entry/exit wounds to consider.
> You can survive even hard vacuum for some time (it's not nice and may
Patching a suit to cover a small hole may be 'routine', but there is also the
psychological aspect of having a hole in your suit to worry about, I'm sure
anyone in vacuum with a patched suit would try to get out of the vacuum (back
to the ship of whatever), the point is, though, that they will no longer take
part in any military action. This doesn't consider what it
may be like to patch a large rent in a suit caused by entry/exit wounds
or DEW weapons, indeed caould these holes be patched in time to retain or even
restore suit integrity?
> On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, Aaron P Teske wrote:
Thanks Aaron. I hope this settles the issue.
In any case, I think the point is somewhat moot as IMO realistically
modeled human would be pretty much out of action upon being wounded --
whether he's in deep space, his backyard or right next to an ICU ward is
a consideration for after-action results (i.e. casualty vs. killed).