Jerks in Full Thrust

Pepper Spray laced paint ball guns....Sticky Foam...Rubber
Bullets..Honest...Water Cannon with 4.0 Amps running in the
stream....;-)

Just tryin' to help! That's how we handle 'em on NARN anyway...;-)

Hello all. As I mentioned in my last post, I had one complaint about my
FT/B5
game. There were two players in my game who were problems. One was a 40ish
gamer who just sat there and did nothing to support his teamates.
The other was his hyperactive 8 or 9 step-son who didn't know any of the
rules (his father thought that was MY responsibility, not his), and ran around
the gaming hall bugging me and the other players. (It was this same kid who
destroyed 3 of the other players miniatures when he would pick them up and
handle them WITHOUT anyone's permission.)
        The step-dad struck me as being a stuck-up SOB who thought he
was the greatest gamer on God's Green Earth. He would not dicipline his kid
when he would yell at the top of his lungs, fall out of his chair and pester
me about turning. (HOW DO YOU TURN? HOW DO YOU TURN?) The widcked step dad
would constantly point out that his son was able to destroy the Yamato in a
playtest game of the Star Blazers game at last year's Gen Con. The kid would
repeat this factoid as proof that he was a good Full Thrust player (Ya'
Know....I destroyed the Yamato.) By the end of game, I wanted
to throttle the kid and use the father for free-sparing practice.
Fortunetly they left around 8:30 because it was "way past" the lttile nipper's
bedtime. Does anyone else have any similar experiences? If so, how do I handle
them without commiting a capital crime?

Later,

> On Mon, 31 Mar 1997, Mike Wikan wrote:

> Pepper Spray laced paint ball guns....Sticky Foam...Rubber

NO! NO! NO! You use louisville sluggers on Narn! WHAM, WHAM ON THE HEAD!!!
("Bop, Bop..." just doesn't discribe the glory of the Narn Bat Squad at work.)

Later,

Two words...electric current

Win Barker

> ----------

> Pepper Spray laced paint ball guns....Sticky Foam...Rubber

Who said anything about the Narn Bat Squad using bats on *Narns*?? Silly
willy, they reserve the bats for other races.

Mk

Regarding Jerks to play with (without)

There are several things that can be done concerning having jerks who want to
play.

1) Do not invite them back (this has the disdavantage of having to put up with
them for at least one night). However after they have been weeded out your
group can play alot better. If they ask why they were not invited back
say something like "The group (or we/I) did not find your style of
playing to be compatable with the rest of the group." If they still object say

something nice but remain firm about them playing (NOT) with you again.

2) About the guy not teaching his son If he did not teach his son how to play
then I think you do not have to (unless you want to teach him). If he is
constantly asking questions, answer the question (Once only). If he keeps
asking it again and again it is obvious he is not listening. In that case just
say "I already told you that." Then let the ships die (explode) as the dice
indicate.

3) The kid makes too much noise. Ask him to stop. If he is at your house or a
friends, then he should obey. If he does not obey (usually afer two or three
times of asking) tell him to either be quite or leave. If it is at a gaming
hall (conference room etc) there is nothing you can do but ask his dad to
quite him down. If this does not work your only recourse is #1.

4) About the broken ship stands. Tell the Dad that the kid or him owes you the
cost of repairing the stands. If the father objects say (politely) that the
next time the kid reaches for one of your figure you will take a ruler and
bust it over his knuckles if the kid does not obey him with the minatures.
Believe me that will get the fathers attention.

In all this the first thing is to be polite and not raise your voice. That
only aggrivates the situation.. Be nice but firm. Kids crave attention.
 If
you tell him to do something and he does not, ignore him. He will either get
the message or throw a tantrum. Again the best thing to do is ignore the kid
or ask the father to take the kid and leave. It is unfortunate that players
who want to enjoy the game have to put up with jerks but after getting rid of
them the game is that more enjoyable.

PS. It is not only in FT that the problem exists. I have seen it is ADND,
Warhammer, Vampire, Star Trek, Scuba diving, R/C warships and various
other
games/hobbis (and at work)

> At 09:33 AM 3/31/97 -0600, you wrote:

Well, if the kid wrecked one of my miniatures due to handling them without
permission, I'd automatically eject the little twerp from the game. Daddy can
leave if he sees fit.

I would probably warn the kid in a firm, but non-threatening manner that
you are dealing with someone else (or please be quiet while I'm talking, or
please wait your turn, etc.). If the father takes exception to you chastising
his son, tell him that his son is disruptive it would probably be best if they
both left.

If there is a secon incident, tell the kid off, right in front of his father
if you have to. This is strike 2. Again, if the father takes exception, ask
him to leave.

If there is a third incident, tell the father that his kid is too disruptive
and that he had best leave. Strike 3, you're out. The father can't say he
wasn't warned.

What forum was this in? Was this a club game or a game demo at a store? Or was
it in a con? I think your reaction would differ based on the situation.
Remember that you have a responsibility to the other people playing the game.
Better to have the father and son pissed at you than have everyone at the game
say, "it was an okay game, but I wish the ref had done something about the guy
and his brat." In a con setting, there are organizers and security folk to
deal with this kind of thing.

> At 09:33 AM 3/31/97 -0600, you wrote:

All of this took place at the gaming hall in the back of my local game store.
It's not that I didn't want to do anything about it. I did.

However, although I was running THIS game, I can't make the descision for the
rest of the gaming group as to who does and doesn't play. Besides, given the
way the rest of the group thinks of them, the running bet is that they won't
be playing with us by the end of the month. However, If this does keep up much
longer, I'm going to nail them both to the wall.

Later,

> At 12:46 PM 3/31/97 -0600, Mark wrote:

> given the way the rest of the group thinks of them, the running bet is

I suspected (from what little I know of you through the mailing list) that
something like this was the case. You don't strike me as the kind of guy who
would suffer fools gladly, given the choice.

It sounds, then, that all you can do is make your displeasure known and
grin-and-bear-it for now. If the rest of the players chime in and agree,
then maybe peer pressure will make the two tow the line.

It's a hard thing to handle in a group session. On one hand you want to
encourage players (particularly younger players as they are too susceptible to
the Dark Side, i.e. GW). On the other hand, you want to have a game that
people actually ENJOY playing. It's actually HARDER to handle in a situation
where no money changes hands in order to join the group. If you have to pay
dues, you hand the guy his money back and tell him he and his son are welcome
when the kid is a bit older. It's actually harder to deal with if it's an
informal group that allows anyone who shows up into the game.

As someone else suggested, you probably did the right thing not bringing
things to a head during the game. Let the executive of the group, or the
members in general if there is no executive, handle the matter.

> However, If this does keep up much longer, I'm going to nail

Just be sure to be polite and gentile when you nail them to the wall
(it's
hard to do, but can be done). You want to maintain the moral high ground
throughout.

> On Mon, 31 Mar 1997, hosford.donald wrote:

Hello all.
> As I mentioned in my last post, I had one complaint about my

> Does anyone else have any similar experiences? If so, how do I
I've had similar incidents in other games but it was with 40ish adults acting
like 8 year olds. I actually had one guy threaten physical violence because I
was "being unfair" (he was losing 'cause he was stupid, I was 14 at the time,
therefor I must have been "being unfair"). I looked at the guy and told him he
was flat out wrong, I did'ne apreciate being bullied and he was no longer
welcome in the game. I did this without yelling (can't say I was calm), and he
did back down. A couple of weeks later he asked if he could play in a game I
was running and I told him no, and that I didn't ever want to participate in a
game he was in due to his behavior.

                 +++++++++++++++
    +------------+             +----------------+

> At 10:44 31/03/97 +0000, you wrote:
You've worked for the Porto Police haven't you?

Sorry, Irrelevant lancastrian joke and announcing that I'm back from holiday.
My email bag can only be described as 'groaning'.

                TTFN
                        Jon

> Mark A. Siefert wrote:

> The other was his hyperactive 8 or 9 step-son who didn't know any of
:
> Does anyone else have any similar experiences? If so, how do I

Mark,

This happens a lot! Yes, I have had many a player that escaped bodily harm by
a narrow margin. Number one rule is to have patience. Many times I have had
excited kids handle and break my own minis even when a parent was nearby. I
ask at the begining of the game if anyone has not played a miniatures wargame
before. If players like this exist, I show them how I would like the minis
handled. I also point out to all to have fun, but respect other players, care
for the minis, and leave all items on the table that were there at the start
of the game. I accept that accidents can happen, but deliberate abuse of game
equipment will not be tolerated.

At year's GenCon I had one individual who thought he knew everything about FT
and on every occasion when a player asked me for help, I was rudely
interrupted(sometimes accompanied by a pseudo-temper tantrum) by said
player who tried talking over my voice on every explanation I made. I finally
took him aside and politely stated the following: "I am the assigned judge of
game.  Do you understand that?" - Offensive player, "Uh, Yes." - "If you
continue to behave in a disruptive manner, I will have you removed from the
convention floor.  Do you understand that?" - Offensive player, "Uh,
Yes."
He behaved quite well after that.

Always remember to keep a cool head and have patience.:)

Mark,

I would take a clue from your e-mail address . . . sacrifice them both
to the Great Cthulhu. Hey, it wasn't your fault that they happened to be
standing at the end of that pier just as the proper stars came into
conjunction...

I don't have many suggestions. We used to have the same problem with an 8 year
old and a gaming group held at a local game store. The problem was that the
kid belonged to the store owner! Luckily, the kid wasn't there too often, but
when he was games tended to break up early.

I think that it's just something you have to deal with if you are going to
hold open demos. The good news is that if the people really like the game
they'll take you aside afterward and ask about when you can get
together _without_ the jerks.

Good luck, and thanks from all of us for taking the lumps in the interests of
getting more people interested in FT.

Bratty kids. Yuck!

Nick Caldwell clcaldwell@primary.net
----------
From:	<Mark Andrew Siefert>[SMTP:cthulhu@csd.uwm.edu]
Sent:	Monday, March 31, 1997 3:33 AM
To:	Full Thrust Mailing List
Subject:	Jerks in Full Thrust

Hello all. As I mentioned in my last post, I had one complaint about my
FT/B5
game. There were two players in my game who were problems. One was a 40ish
gamer who just sat there and did nothing to support his teamates.
The other was his hyperactive 8 or 9 step-son who didn't know any of the
rules (his father thought that was MY responsibility, not his), and ran around
the gaming hall bugging me and the other players. (It was this same kid who
destroyed 3 of the other players miniatures when he would pick them up and
handle them WITHOUT anyone's permission.)
        The step-dad struck me as being a stuck-up SOB who thought he
was the greatest gamer on God's Green Earth. He would not dicipline his kid
when he would yell at the top of his lungs, fall out of his chair and pester
me about turning. (HOW DO YOU TURN? HOW DO YOU TURN?) The widcked step dad
would constantly point out that his son was able to destroy the Yamato in a
playtest game of the Star Blazers game at last year's Gen Con. The kid would
repeat this factoid as proof that he was a good Full Thrust player (Ya'
Know....I destroyed the Yamato.) By the end of game, I wanted

> Mark,

Just mention Ygolanac (sp??) to them and hope they repeat it in a confused
manner a couple of times.... A word of warning - Break out the 8-guage
and
the 6-packs before he says it 3 times :)

-Michael (I really must play less RPG's)

> Mark A. Siefert wrote:

> same kid who destroyed 3 of the other players miniatures when he would

> pick them up and handle them WITHOUT anyone's permission.)

When I am running any game at a convention or at the gaming club I almost
always set down my ground rules about such things before play begins and that
I don't like rules lawyers or complainers and that it does not matter if you
win or lose but just that you have fun.

My little speech is almost always taken to heart since I am a very large
fellow of almost 400lbs and could squash any of the little miscreants anyways.

Will