> Why are walkers relegated to size 1 or 4-7? Why no size 2 or 3 walkers?
If
> smaller walkers are possible, and so are bigger ones, why not the
We play with size 2 and 3 walkers in Stargrunt, using Heavy Gear miniatures
for size 1 and 2, and some big resin/metal kits from (Kyomek???) that
look like starwars scout walkers for the size 3. There are a couple of really
big Heavy Gear figs (the Naga and the Mammoth) which could be size 3 also,
I think - but of course you have to find the old scale (now OOP) Gears,
as DP9 is producing all their own figs now in the new, and much smaller,
scale.
> Has anyone done any conversions from Heavy Gear into SG or DS? I've
We ignore the wheels as a special feature, and just figure that the gears move
the same as other vehicles, but can make better way through certain
terrain (such as forrest - we allow size 1 walkers to go through forest
the same as infantry).
One of the things that struck me when using Heavy Gear figs is the way the
vehicle design rules in SG work. You have space limitations on size 1
vehicles, particularly for turreted weapons, that would seem to preclude Heavy
Gear type vehicles, which use arms not turrets. Tom Barclay and I talked about
this at some length, and proposed a set of rules for exposed weapons, which
would not require the same internal space as regular turreted weapons, thereby
allowing a Gear to pack more punch (and make "legal", though this is not
really accurate in SG which is pretty
free-form
anyway, the Heavy Gear figs). The exposed weapon rules provided for damage
to the weapons on non-penetrating hits, and had potentials for explosive
results to the walker or surrounding models for certain weapons (like heavy
flame throwers, grenade launchers, etc).
Tom Barclay has the basics of this posted on his website:
http://fox.nstn.ca/~kaladorn/Gaming/ground.htm
follow the two bottom links.
Also, if you're interested, I detailed (very simply) some SG infantry walkers
based on Heavy Gear figures in a TOE I wrote that was posted on a couple of
sites. Try Jeremy Sadler's Unofficial SG2 Web Site, and my TOE at:
http://stargrunt.virtualave.net/rules/nactoe.html
At the bottom of the TOE is some brief descriptions of the walkers.
Tom and I were also discussing the fact that the Heavy Gear miniatures come
in a variety of sizes - mostly around what would be Size 1 in Stargrunt.
There are a couple that are OBVIOUSLY bigger (so we use Size 2), but a few
which are sort of half-way in between. We proposed for simplicity sake
a size 1.5 vehicle... Basically that would be a size 1 vehicle (for armour
purposes) but could carry extra spaces (2 or 3) of equipment. It would have a
larger signature, so would count as a size 2 for targeting purposes. This
wasn't worked out in great detail, but allowed you the benefits of carring
more shooty stuff, but balanced it with restrictions on armour and making it
easier to hit.
I know this doesn't really follow any of the other parts of the system (or
DSII), but for sake of ease we kept it really simple. It works fine in game
play.
We have not done conversions of the actual Heavy Gear story-type
vehicles into Stargrunt.... the vehicles would of course then be way
underscale (since the Heavy Gear stuff is much bigger in it's universe than
the figures are relative to the Stargrunt infantry). We use them 'cause they
are cool miniatures that are PERFECT size 1 and 2 walkers in 25mm, and they
were easily available.
FYI, RAFM did some artillery pieces for the Heavy Gear line which also look
great with Stargrunt figures - they look about the size of a light
howitzer, vehicle towed. I don't know where you could get them, but the
"Southern Milicia" artillery is really cool. I have a battery of 3 done up,
and use them for special scenarios as objectives (capture the artillery
park, etc) OR occasionally give one side ONE as a direct-fire anti-tank
gun.... Good for lower-tech type colonial militia or mercs.
Sounds like you've done a lot of work on this stuff. I assumed HG would be
more easily converted to SG than to DS. Thanks for the input. In some ways, it
would seem, DS makes it easier to build them, especially DS'
movement rules and the issue of the wheels - the simple house rule I
proposed seems to cover it with little or no effort.
As for the weaponry, I don't know what the stats, ranges and such are in HG, I
just went with what I saw on the boxes of figures I looked at. It looks
like gears use a lot of multi-tubed rocket launchers. This seems to
equate to a SLAM. If you have a class 2 walker, it could carry a SLAM 3. As
for space limitations, I don't know about SG, but in DS, walker arms are
treated
special. You count the space for an arm-mounted weapon as for a fixed
mount on any other vehicle, hence they don't take up as much space. I figured
the
hand-held weapons used by gears would translate easily as APSW's and
RFAC's, but again, I could be wrong. ALso, once you bring them into the DSII
universe, you really broaden their choice of weaponry. The heavy Infantry
Support Walker I came up with is a class 2, equipped with a DFFG 3 and a
GMS/H. Firecon on the DFFG is enhanced, on the GMS it's superior. The
DFFG
is an effective anti-personnel weapon, and capable of dealing with
almost
anything up close, while the GMS/H gives it decent standoff capability.
I
call it the S2P-C1 Sorceror (Cascadian designation system - my own
construct).
Brian Bilderback
----Original Message Follows----
From: adrian.johnson@sympatico.ca
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Infantry Walkers for Stargrunt - from Heavy Gear figs...
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 19:13:17 -0400
We ignore the wheels as a special feature, and just figure that the gears move
the same as other vehicles, but can make better way through certain
terrain (such as forrest - we allow size 1 walkers to go through forest
the same as infantry).
One of the things that struck me when using Heavy Gear figs is the way the
vehicle design rules in SG work. You have space limitations on size 1
vehicles, particularly for turreted weapons, that would seem to preclude Heavy
Gear type vehicles, which use arms not turrets. Tom Barclay and I talked about
this at some length, and proposed a set of rules for exposed weapons, which
would not require the same internal space as regular turreted weapons, thereby
allowing a Gear to pack more punch (and make "legal", though this is not
really accurate in SG which is pretty
free-form
anyway, the Heavy Gear figs). The exposed weapon rules provided for damage
to the weapons on non-penetrating hits, and had potentials for explosive
results to the walker or surrounding models for certain weapons (like heavy
flame throwers, grenade launchers, etc).
Tom Barclay has the basics of this posted on his website:
http://fox.nstn.ca/~kaladorn/Gaming/ground.htm
follow the two bottom links.
Also, if you're interested, I detailed (very simply) some SG infantry walkers
based on Heavy Gear figures in a TOE I wrote that was posted on a couple of
sites. Try Jeremy Sadler's Unofficial SG2 Web Site, and my TOE at:
http://stargrunt.virtualave.net/rules/nactoe.html
At the bottom of the TOE is some brief descriptions of the walkers.
Tom and I were also discussing the fact that the Heavy Gear miniatures come
in a variety of sizes - mostly around what would be Size 1 in Stargrunt.
There are a couple that are OBVIOUSLY bigger (so we use Size 2), but a few
which are sort of half-way in between. We proposed for simplicity sake
a size 1.5 vehicle... Basically that would be a size 1 vehicle (for armour
purposes) but could carry extra spaces (2 or 3) of equipment. It would have a
larger signature, so would count as a size 2 for targeting purposes. This
wasn't worked out in great detail, but allowed you the benefits of carring
more shooty stuff, but balanced it with restrictions on armour and making it
easier to hit.
I know this doesn't really follow any of the other parts of the system (or
DSII), but for sake of ease we kept it really simple. It works fine in game
play.
We have not done conversions of the actual Heavy Gear story-type
vehicles into Stargrunt.... the vehicles would of course then be way
underscale (since the Heavy Gear stuff is much bigger in it's universe than
the figures are relative to the Stargrunt infantry). We use them 'cause they
are cool miniatures that are PERFECT size 1 and 2 walkers in 25mm, and they
were easily available.
FYI, RAFM did some artillery pieces for the Heavy Gear line which also look
great with Stargrunt figures - they look about the size of a light
howitzer, vehicle towed. I don't know where you could get them, but the
"Southern Milicia" artillery is really cool. I have a battery of 3 done up,
and use them for special scenarios as objectives (capture the artillery
park, etc) OR occasionally give one side ONE as a direct-fire anti-tank
gun.... Good for lower-tech type colonial militia or mercs.
> Sounds like you've done a lot of work on this stuff. I assumed HG
> ways, it would seem, DS makes it easier to build them, especially DS'
The problem you'd run into trying to convert HG *literally* into DS or SG
is the scale of the figs. The old HG figs are appx HO scale (I think) -
so
they are maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of what they should be if they were in-scale
to a SG infantryman. And of course they are WAAAYYY to big for DS. Now, the
NEW HG scale might be better for DS, if you assumed that the Gears are REALLY
BIG(tm) vehicles (that would be Size: LOTS)... I think the new HG scale is
10mm.
So, we decided to use the HG figs in SG as "generic" infantry
walkers/combat walkers, and fudge up *simple* rules to make them seem
plausible in the SG system.
> As for the weaponry, I don't know what the stats, ranges and such are
Yep. We use them as a support weapon in SG the same as the
over-the-shoulder rocket packs on PA. The HG figure line has a bunch of
different single tube launchers suitable for GMS/L or GMS/H. They also
have stuff suitable for RFAC and all the energy-type weapons.
Just before RAFM stopped producing the HG line, they released a series of
blister packs that were just sets of Gear weapons. There were several
different packs, with different types of stuff. These are great for SG scale
vehicle conversions, as well (of course) as modifing Gears. If you
can find them, they're worth the purchase. Very "generic sci-fi"
looking big guns for 25mm.
Actually, I didn't want to convert them literally into DS, I understood the
problems of size. What I was looking for was a conversion of designs, and you
can always use something small enough to represent them on a DSII map.
----Original Message Follows----
From: adrian.johnson@sympatico.ca
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Infantry Walkers for Stargrunt - from Heavy Gear figs...
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 20:47:34 -0400
The problem you'd run into trying to convert HG *literally* into DS or SG
is the scale of the figs. The old HG figs are appx HO scale (I think) -
so
they are maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of what they should be if they were in-scale
to a SG infantryman. And of course they are WAAAYYY to big for DS.
> Brian Bilderback wrote:
> Actually, I didn't want to convert them literally into DS, I
Like GZG's not-VOTOMS infantry walkers.
---
Like what? Sorry, that's not a figure I'm familiar with....
> Brian Bilderback wrote:
> Like GZG's not-VOTOMS infantry walkers.
> Like what? Sorry, that's not a figure I'm familiar with....
GZG do a range (6 or 8 different figures) of DSII infantry walkers that are
dead ringers for VOTOMS.
As the gears in HG are based quite heavily on VOTOMS the figures are very
useful as 1:300 gears. They're not identical to gears, but close enough.
---
Cool. And what, pray tell (further exposing my ignorance) are VOTOMs?
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Steve Gill" <Steve@caws.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: RE: Infantry Walkers for Stargrunt - from Heavy Gear figs...
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 20:27:28 +0100
GZG do a range (6 or 8 different figures) of DSII infantry walkers that are
dead ringers for VOTOMS.
As the gears in HG are based quite heavily on VOTOMS the figures are very
useful as 1:300 gears. They're not identical to gears, but close enough.
---
Steve Gill
VOTOMS is another Japanese Anime with giant powersuit-types. The series
was mostly ground based units (although they had cool maneuver packs for
Zero-G). The designs were classic 80's styling - blocky, with slightly
rounded corners and then large rounded parts for the joints and some of the
heads. Cool details include -treads attached to the outside of the foot
that dropped down and acted like motorized in-line skates for those high
speed chases across desert and inside giant landships; the tri-monocle
sights - the visual system only used one lens at a time, but had three
lens for (I assume) normal, telescopic and IR; and the usual range of super
heavy guns and rockets that you expect from anime.
--Binhan
> -----Original Message-----
Thanks. Sounds like those treads could be treated the same way I proposed
treating the wheels on HG's. Cost them for *Mobility type at 110% the BVP
instead of the normal 100%, and allow them to treat roads as Easy terrain.
Allow this only for class 1 & 2 Infantry Walkers, since anything larger and it
would unbalance things too much IMHO (But if you want justification, say that
suspensions small enouugh to fit in the feet couldn't support the weight of
larger Walkers. It may or may not be true, but it sounds plausible enough as a
story line).
Brian Bilderback
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Binhan Lin (Good)" <Lin@RXKINETIX.com>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: "'gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU'" <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: RE: Infantry Walkers for Stargrunt - from Heavy Gear figs...
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:35:52 -0600
VOTOMS is another Japanese Anime with giant powersuit-types. The series
was mostly ground based units (although they had cool maneuver packs for
Zero-G). The designs were classic 80's styling - blocky, with slightly
rounded corners and then large rounded parts for the joints and some of the
heads. Cool details include -treads attached to the outside of the foot
that dropped down and acted like motorized in-line skates for those high
speed chases across desert and inside giant landships; the tri-monocle
sights - the visual system only used one lens at a time, but had three
lens for (I assume) normal, telescopic and IR; and the usual range of super
heavy guns and rockets that you expect from anime.
Oh, and do you know how I can get my hands on some here in the states? I
didn't see any on the Geo-Hex page...
Order from Ground Zero Games, price is about the same usually a little cheaper
in my experience, shipping time's about the same. That's for the US of course,
don't know about anywhere else.
Jade Tseng
[quoted original message omitted]
Thanks
BB
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Conchart@geotec.net" <conchart@geotec.net>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: Infantry Walkers for Stargrunt - from Heavy Gear figs...
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:56:18 -0500
Order from Ground Zero Games, price is about the same usually a little cheaper
in my experience, shipping time's about the same. That's for the US of course,
don't know about anywhere else.