Brian spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Kenneth Winland wrote:
What I think of as an "infantry" walker would be too small to be a
GMS/H carrier. I think of them (similar to grav bikes) as 0.5 size
vehicles. A size 1 walker would be a bit larger and I consider size
1-3 walkers combat walkers (size 2 ATST) , and size 4 and 5 are
transport walkers (I'm looking at using an ATAT model - huge- for
SG2).
To me, a size 0.5 infantry walker is a platform on which MLPs, SAWs,
GMS/Ps (maybe GMS/L), HMGs, GAC/1 or RFAC/1, autoGLs, and a few other
such things might be mounted (but obviously not altogether). I give
them 3 spaces. Not big enough for a GMS/H.
SImilarly, a grav bike is size 0.5. With 3 spaces, It could mount a
centerline RFAC/1. But I charge a space for the crewman in this case
as the bike is short on interior space. And if the bike has room for an extra
passenger, there goes another space. Leaving 1 for a SAW.
But it occurs to me you might (as bike crew) want that space for a medkit,
ammo, water, bike tools, etc. Since you are a mounted cavalry unit.... so it
may be that only the occaisional bike (1 per squad) as suggested carries a SAW
or other HW as fire support. Maybe some of his buddies carries some ammo for
it.
Another interesting Grav Bike idea. Three or four bike hunter/killer
formations. one or two unarmed scouts (perhaps using the extra space to
justify enhanced or even superior sensors to hunt for targets
during pop ups and such) and two gun bikes with a centreline GMS/L,
RFAC/1, twin SAW, DFFG/1 or HEL/1 and fire control. Used similar to
Kiowa/Cayeuse and Cobra/Appache combos. (On a smaller scale). Good
for hit and runs against light armour and against infantry or PA.
(Not for protracted battles - assault gun tactics - hit, then run).
Can also call arty from the scout bikes.
> Low armour values? They have (AFAIK) the same armour rules as any
Especially things with low armour. Put an MBT up against infantry
without specialist anti-armour (Armour 3-5 versus penetrations at
most D12x2) the MBts look pretty darn tough and surivable. Especially if they
have good ECM or PDS to foil missiles. And put decoys aboard and that adds
more protection.
> In DS2, my Walker arm tends to take ridiculous casualties in every
Of course, where do you crew your IWs from? 75% is high casualties...
> > On an ancillary note; how do you all find vehicles in SGII? Do
I picture GMS/P as the max that normal guys can carry and it hits no
harder than an IAVR (yes volley fire of IAVRs sucks... don't get so
close... use your infantry in front of you to deter this). GMS/L I
view as TOW like small launchers (Considering doubling the Harlequin
SAM launcher at a GMS/L Team for my OU until someone makes tripod
GMS/L). GMS/H I see as equivalent ot Hellfire or the like - a nasty
nasty missile, but not particulary portable - maybe on a small
wheeled chassis like my GMS/H Air. Or in a dedicated AA battery.
If I let the infantry carry GMS/L, that would sure cut down the
lifespan of even heavy AFVs. I think infantry with GMS/L (TOW type)
would be encumbered.... good for static defense, but not carried normally.
> Orbital drop troop support. Only vehicles that can do orbital drops
And some infantry backup in woods and other tough terrain. Not too hot in
swamps.
Tom.
/************************************************
> On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Thomas Barclay wrote:
> Brian spake thusly upon matters weighty:
difference in terminology here, is all. I usually refer to Size 1 walkers as
'infantry walkers'. Most of the point of running them is to have
GMS/Hs
available to support my PA assaults.
> A size 1 walker would be a bit larger and I consider size
My God...in 25mm, I take it? You'll have to invent rules for
VTOLs/Aerospace craft to wrap cables around their knees...What size are
you going to make the ATAT?
> To me, a size 0.5 infantry walker is a platform on which MLPs, SAWs,
In SG2, PA can mount most of the stuff you mentioned, including the
GAC/1
or RFAC/1. The NAC has a GAC/1 (the L23A2 HVAT), the ESU has an RFAC/1
, both on PA. The only exception is the GMS/L.
> SImilarly, a grav bike is size 0.5. With 3 spaces, It could mount a
This would be nasty on the SG2 battlefield. Attack bikes like this I'd run as
Size 1 vehicles, however, to differentiate between them and the ones that are
only transport for their troops.
> > Low armour values? They have (AFAIK) the same armour rules as any
My rational is that the IW arm is the 'glamour' arm of the infantry. Sort of
like air forces in WW1. Lots of pilots get killed, but lots of people still
want to become pilots...Seriously, I need to work on IW tactics, maybe cut
down on those casualty figures...
> > > On an ancillary note; how do you all find vehicles in SGII? Do
sorry, I meant GMS/P trooper. Typo, plus I haven't played SG2 in a bit,
but lots of DS2 recently...
> GMS/H I see as equivalent ot Hellfire or the like - a nasty
True. I can't see having GMS/H as a man-portable system. Too big. On
size 1 vehicles, though, it can be very nasty.
> If I let the infantry carry GMS/L, that would sure cut down the
They'd count as crewed weapons, yes. I have a GAC/1 /RFAC/1 I field in
SG2, and when it's being carried, the three-person crew all count as
encumbered. Ditto for GMS/L, when I get around to building a model of
one and modifying some figs.
> > Orbital drop troop support. Only vehicles that can do orbital drops
Exactly. in DS2, the only vehicles that can go full movement through most
woods. That's given a few of my opponents nasty shocks from time to time.
> Not too hot in swamps.
Nothing is. Even infantry slows down, and in DS2 it's virtually the only
terrain that does slow infantry down.
> On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Brian Burger wrote:
> > 1-3 walkers combat walkers (size 2 ATST) , and size 4 and 5 are
Heh, heh. I'd prefer using GMS/H's or DFFG5's on them, but then that
would be in DSII. Isn't size 4 or 5 a bit too small for the ATAT's from Star
Wars?
Greetings!
> On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Thomas Barclay wrote:
> What I think of as an "infantry" walker would be too small to be a
With our figure conversions, a Size 1 walker looks nice with a
GMS/L. A Size 2 walker is certainly buff enough for a GMS/H. But this
is relative, I think....:)
> To me, a size 0.5 infantry walker is a platform on which MLPs, SAWs,
We just stick Grav Bikes with a SAW. As an RFAC/1 is something
akin to a.50, that just conjures up nightmarish images!:)
> Another interesting Grav Bike idea. Three or four bike hunter/killer
Hmmmmm.... Now THERES an idea.
> Especially things with low armour. Put an MBT up against infantry
Yeah. We had a few games were the infantry pissed away their
GMS/Ps and IAVRs, and had a size 4 tank running around with
anti-personnel
charges going off left and right. It was a bit scary.
> I picture GMS/P as the max that normal guys can carry and it hits no
This all makes sense, and is pretty much how we view things.
> lifespan of even heavy AFVs. I think infantry with GMS/L (TOW type)
Or maybe carried in for a special ambush or dropped in for a specific purpose.
US Light Infantry are known to hump some *heavy* equipment for certain
missions. I know *I* wouldn't want to hump a
GMS/L
around all over the countryside!
Ken
> On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Kenneth Winland wrote:
surely an RFAC/1 is a 20 - 25 mm cannon? a 14.7 mm (or .50, as you call
it) is an APSW (or an HMG in SG2?).
Tom
.50 caliber (U.S.) is 12.7mm NATO. 14.5mm is Warsaw Pact used on the BRDM and
BTR series
> On Fri, 20 Nov 1998 ScottSaylo@aol.com wrote:
oops! my bad. been a while since i've considered anything smaller than 250
mm particle cannon :-).
Tom
oops! my bad. been a while since i've considered anything smaller than 250
mm particle cannon :-).
No Prob. I just happen to be a modern armor buff, like I am for future armor.