> On Thu, 23 Oct 1997, Stuart Murray wrote:
> Is it me or has Warner picked two pretty poor games companies to get
I should say that it does sound harsh. CE and AOG are doing the best job that
they can what with the difficulties that come with dealing with WB.
Everything... the miniatures, the sourcebooks, the rules have to be checked by
WB before either company can even THINK about printing or
producing a B5W/BP product. This, needless to say, takes time since the
people responsible for B5 have usually have other things to do... like making
a TV show. In AOG's case, the problem was not with AOG but with the buffoons
at Bad Dog who constantly botched the minis and the mini orders. Plus demand
is so high that they need time to catch up. Don't sell either company short
right now. They both have herculian tasks ahead of them. Please cut tham a
little slack.
Respectfully, Mark A. Siefert
"Joel, what chance do we have in a world that keeps presenting us with vivid
images of Hell?"
"Well there's personal liberty, strength of conviction... Those have been
known to work. Then there's the time the country rallies together to beat back
Hell. Like the time we as a nation said `no' to Yahoo Serious."
--Tom Servo and Joel Robinson
MST3K "Eegah"
On Oct 23, 1997 at 2:52:02 PM, "<Mark Andrew Siefert>" <cthulhu@csd.uwm.edu>
wrote:
> In AOG's case, the problem was not with AOG but with the
I agree wholeheartedly with regard to CE. AoG's product, on the other hand,
has a lot of problems that have nothing to do with either distribution
problems or miniatures, and everything to do with design process and final
rules.
> Mark wrote:
<snip>
Plus demand is so high that they need time to catch up. Don't sell either
company short right now. They both have herculian tasks ahead of them. Please
cut tham a little slack.
Why? They are businesses and we are consumers we have a right to demand a good
service from them and if they can't keep up go bust.
Sorry, I don't agree. I've been gaming since 1978 (starting with AH's
Bismarck) and without fail, almost EVERY ruleset has quirks when it first
comes out. Look at FT (which I adore slavishly) and the problems with
a)Kra'Vak b)beam weapon pricing c)Savasku lack of point system d)etc, etc.
That does not keep me from liking the product. I have found B5Wars to be a lot
of fun!
> I agree wholeheartedly with regard to CE. AoG's product, on the other
> problems or miniatures, and everything to do with design process and
> Neil wrote:
> Why? They are businesses and we are consumers we have a right to
Only when that "bad service" is a result of their neglegence. In either
company's case, the dailys are not their fault. As I said before, both have to
deal with WB before they can publish any of their products. In AOG's case
their delays were primarily the fault of Bad Dog Designs
and their inability to handle the miniatures. The Narn-Centauri War
Supplement is DONE. Most of the capital ship minis masters are DONE. They
could go to press tommorow if they could. All they need is the blessing of
JMS, George Johnson, or whoever at WB who haves to power to give the go ahead.
> From: "Neil" <morg@intonet.co.uk>
> Mark wrote:
Unlikely since they have a monopoly on the product licence.
> Neil wrote:
> Why? They are businesses and we are consumers we have a right to
> and Niall wrote:
> Unlikely since they have a monopoly on the product licence.
Well, yes, but the licence can usually be withdrawn if the granter doesn't
like what's being done with it. So if WB or JMS actually listen to anyone
other than their "gaming industry buddies" (whoever they were) who told them
these companies were capable of handling such a large challenge, things may
happen. But don't hold your breath.
ObFullThrust: any chance of a sneak preview of the new ship design system (not
necessarily numbers, just what sort of systems are available)? I'd like to
revise the Full Thrust Portable Format to make it compatible...
> I should say that it does sound harsh. CE and AOG are doing
I have to say it's not an unuisual phenomenon for licenced products. The Star
Trek CCG company (Decipher?) suffered from the same problems with Paramount.
Took them 18 months to get the first supplement out as Paramount insisted on
approving the artwork on every card. By then of course the CCG bubble had
burst..
TTFN
Jon
> > Why? They are businesses and we are consumers we have a right to
> > Why? They are businesses and we are consumers we have a right to
Hey! Give them a break! Can't someone have a bad run? So they made a few
mistakes. This is their first time marketing a complete game that they have
done all by themselves. There were bound to be some teething troubles. I think
they have done pretty well putting out what they have. They put up with some
pretty bad s*&t from Bad Dog Designs from what I hear. But like others have
said I have seen very few gaming companies that publish on time. Look at GZG
for instance (no offense meant here Jon!). The FTII rulebooks state that they
expect the Fleet Book to come out "soon" and they were published several years
ago. But we have yet to see it and I don't see anyone on this list saying that
GZG should get a huge customer backlash and go bust. So AOG aren't the only
ones who can get behind schedule. Give them a break. I have talked to the guys
at AOG and they are as concerned
about their schedule problems as anyone. They are a two-person
operation doing the best they can. That's why I still willing to give them
another chance.