Some time ago I picked up a Tegethoff dreadnought (geohex blister), and I am
finally thinking about putting it together. I am a bit worried about the thing
staying together though.
The rear engine part should not be a problem as the two parts enclose a large
part of the central hull. At the front things seem to be a bit more
vulnerable. There is a only a tiny piece of metal sticking out of the central
hull which is to be inserted in a tiny hole in the frontal hull box. I'll need
to file things a bit to get as much surface area between the front hull and
the central hull for gluing, but I suspect this won't be enough to hold things
together. Pins are probably in order here.
So, any suggestions to make this model bombproof are welcome.
> On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Frits Kuijlman wrote:
> Some time ago I picked up a Tegethoff dreadnought (geohex blister),
A Tegethoff, staying together? Try pelting it with a few dozen C3s. She'll
hold together ("hear me, baby? hold together")
> The rear engine part should not be a problem as the two parts enclose
When I put mine together, I opted to leave off the lone "wing" of metal. It
looked goofy to me, and I couldn't come up with any good PSB for it to be
there. So never placed it (saved it for kitbashing
other ships ;-). Mine looks fine and no one's ever mentioned anything
about the metal "wing" thing missing (now everyone'll be looking for it, you
watch!).
Mk
A Tegethoff, staying together? Try pelting it with a few dozen C3s. She'll
hold together ("hear me, baby? hold together")
LOL, yep about right......)
When I put mine together, I opted to leave off the lone "wing" of metal. It
looked goofy to me, and I couldn't come up with any good PSB for it to be
there. So never placed it (saved it for kitbashing
other ships ;-). Mine looks fine and no one's ever mentioned anything
about the metal "wing" thing missing (now everyone'll be looking for it, you
watch!).
I did pretty much the same as you with one exception (using that one as a
Command and Control ship). But others I left it off and
added guns.......)
> --- Frits Kuijlman <frits@pds.twi.tudelft.nl> wrote:
File everything as flat as possible! Fit, file,
fit, file, and subassemble front and rear bottoms. Superglue the center
section to 'tack' the ship together, use epoxy to hold it for real, and watch
the alignment closely as the front will tend to 'drift' off center and spoil
the alignment.
Bye for now,
> --- Don M <dmaddox1@hot.rr.com> wrote:
So never placed it (saved it for kitbashing
> other ships ;-). Mine looks fine and no one's ever
Well, just to be different, I added another wing just behind the forward
section that is angled out aligned with the upper section. Kinda like this:
> John Leary wrote:
Right, I'll get my Proxon and alchemy supplies together and do some major
surgery on the things. I got the Tegethoff together with a Theuerdank and an
Istvan from a bargain bin, so I don't have to worry about the wings as these
were missing. Fortunately, I wasn't planning on putting on the wings as I
think they look silly (ducking for a Narn bat flying my way).
What's up with all these wings anyway? The UNSC has them as well on otherwise
great looking modular ships.
--- Frits Kuijlman <frits@pds.twi.tudelft.nl> wrote:>
> Right, I'll get my Proxon and alchemy supplies
...
> Fortunately, I wasn't planning on putting on the
In the 'real' world of space (confused you yet?), the 'wings' would be useful
as radiators for the excess heat generated by the power plants.
Bye for now,
I built 2 and the carrier.
I didnt use any pins or anything fancy, id probs do more damage than good;)
I used fast setting araldite (?sp) and they've been fine for 2 years carried
around to various gaming venues etc, never had a problem, you do need a big
stang tho.
[quoted original message omitted]
Well, the unpainted metal has been staring at me for quite some time
now:-) I just glued/filed together two Maximillians and a Svent
Istvan. Now I know why these geohex blisters were in the bargain bin. The
Svent Istvan has a lot of flash and is less clean than the one I picked up
last year at Action2004 in Rheindahlen. That one was probably from GZG itself.
Are the GZG models cleaner and easier to put together than the Geohex ones, or
did I just have a bad batch?
I also put together the front and rear part of a Tegethoff and
Theuerdank with LOTS of filing and 2-part epoxy. At least one will need
some milliput to fill gaps. Once this is done I'll try putting in the central
sections. In short: ARGH! What I'll probably do when painting them is turn all
the places that had flash into battle damage, as lots of details couldn't be
saved.
Ah well, that least this means Jon will be happy as I'll be picking up some
clean ones at Salute later this year.
> Are the GZG models cleaner and easier to put together than the Geohex
Short answer: both. There were a wide variety in quality with the Geohex sets;
many were dreadful. Jon's, by my small sample and many reports, are much more
consistant, and on the good side at that. Also, I think KR worked with several
casting companies over the course of his license. I've heard AoG had a similar
story with it's first B5 stuff.
When you get something as large and complicated as a large, multi-piece
thing like an NSL heavy, the imperfections just multiply.
The_Beast
> Doug Evans wrote:
Okidoki, that's it then. I also have some Japanese and UNSC ships I bought
directly from Jon, and there is almost no flash at all on these ships. The NSL
ships are older of course, but at least this gives me hope of buying some nice
versions of NSL ships at Salute.
> Doug Evans wrote:
We fairly recently replaced the moulds on most of the NSL line, especially the
big ships, because the old ones were getting tired; continued runs of large
chunks of metal can knock hell out of the moulds!
I know there were problems with some of the stuff GeoHex produced
under licence - sadly I didn't have much knowledge or control over
this while it was happening! Unfortunately this isn't good for our reputation,
which (coupled with the fact that I never made a great deal of money out of
the licensing deal...) has a lot to do with why
we haven't appointed another licencee after GeoHex went belly-up,
preferring to supply direct from here where I KNOW what is going out to the
customers.... this of course neatly draws this back onto the
topic being discussed on the list a few days ago! ;-)
One thing that has struck me recently, however, is that the F&SF side of the
hobby is really quite "spoilt" in the typical quality of
castings supplied by most companies in the field - I've recently been
buying a lot of 15mm WW2 stuff for my own hobby interest, and (without naming
company names, but I've bought from most of them) in many cases the quality of
the castings is WAY, WAY lower than ANY SF gamer would accept.... significant
numbers of miscasts, broken
pieces, missing pieces, wrongly-packed pieces, whole models requiring
massive surgery and reworking to get them assembled, etc, etc... including
some that are just simply so poor that the whole model has been consigned to
the bits bin!
I'm not saying for a minute that this is the way it should be - just
that overall, the F&SF side seems to have significantly better quality control
than much of the historical side of the industry.....
Gee, given the reputed "anal-retentive" reputation of historical war
gamers I would have thought they would be the pickiest!
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 22:50:19 +0000 Ground Zero Games <jon@gzg.com>
writes:
> Doug Evans wrote:
> Ground Zero Games wrote:
> I'm not saying for a minute that this is the way it should be - just
> control than much of the historical side of the industry.....
To be fair though, I think the pricing of 25mm F&SF figures _allows_ for
more quality control than 15mm historicals. There seems to be damn little
margin on 15mm historicals, whereas if we look as the pricing from, say
companies which used to be okay when going under a name similar to "fortress"
but have now transformed into the Evil One (tm), the prices seem to bear no
relation to production prices whatsoever;) And since they do set a standard
other companies get compared to (and in
my opinion then win hands down), there is a much greater drive for quality
control.
Cheers,
> Ground Zero Games wrote:
Just to make this absolutely clear: I have always been very happy with the
goodies I bought directly from you, Jon. I just wonder why I haven't heard
much more of problems with Geohex Tegethoff.
And about historicals: I won't say they(myself included) are cheapskates, we
just like to complain about the Evil Empire's
prices:-)
However, even historicals can be made with a nice level of quality for a fair
price. Recently I got some samples for various 6mm modern manufacturers (not
HGQ though), and the prices were all sort of similar. However, the quality,
especially for the infantry varied greatly. This means I will buy most of this
stuff only after I have
had some led/pewter in my hands. This is opposed to F/SF, which I buy
often unseen, or after having seen a picture on the web.
> On 2/16/04 3:43 AM, "Frits Kuijlman" <frits@pds.twi.tudelft.nl> wrote:
> I just wonder why I haven't heard much more of problems with Geohex
I have a Geohex ESU carrier that never went together right. Of the Geohex
stuff I have (which isn't all that much) I can only think of a few ships that
didn't have some sort of issue. The single piece stuff was normally
okay but had tons of flash. The multi-part ships all had issues of one
sort or another.
I bought some IJN ships at last years ECC and without fail they went
together like a puzzle -- the parts just fit together.
Damo
> On 2/16/04 3:43 AM, "Frits Kuijlman" <frits@pds.twi.tudelft.nl> wrote:
Sorry to hear that - sadly, it just reinforces the reasons why we're
supplying everything direct at the moment.... :-/
> Ground Zero Games wrote:
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Frits! Come and introduce yourself at
Salute, and we'll make sure you get a
Von Teg that you can actually build up! ;-)
> And about historicals: I won't say they(myself included) are
Yes, very much agreed. Some historicals manufacturers are very good indeed,
but what surprises me is how the poorer ones manage to survive. In some cases
it isn't even that they are much cheaper than the good ones. For example, if I
want an obscure item for my
early-ww2 forces, say something like a Kfz-13 Adler, I know I can
only get it from one manufacturer - so I'll buy it from them, even
though I know it'll be a bit rough and need quite a lot of work to make it
presentable. But, if I want a Panzer III then I know can get one from at least
half a dozen manufacturers; it'll cost me round about the same from whoever
(between 4 and 5 UKP or thereabouts), but they will vary in quality from
crisp, accurate castings to
barely-recognisable lumps of lead - so obviously I'd buy the best one
I could get.
I suppose that in SF, you don't have that direct competition - you
want a Von Tegethoff, then you have to buy OUR Von Tegethoff, whether it's
good or not! The option is that you choose to buy another model from someone
else's range, but though it may look vaguely similar (as
some do!) it's not a model of the same ship - so unlike the Panzer
III example, it's seldom a case of being able to choose the best
representation of the same thing.
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 02:55:15PM +0000, Ground Zero Games wrote:
> I suppose that in SF, you don't have that direct competition - you
This is certainly true, but the FT gamers I know tend to tune their
designs to the miniatures available rather than the other way round -
I've bought the IJSF fleet packs because I like the look of 'em, not because I
want to play with wave guns and transformable fighters and missile swarms so
thick you could walk across them to the enemy ship... (cough cough) OK, maybe
I do a little.
But to get back to the point - I'd only buy a von Tegetthoff because I
thought it _looked_ good, not because I wanted to put one on the table
and needed the "right" miniature - the people I play with would (I think
rightly) think of that as Games-Workshop-syndrome (and there's a similar
point in the FT books every time the "official" miniatures are mentioned). For
that matter, since we only have one or two distinct "fleets" each but don't
want to leave half the rules unused, we play
non-standard ships much more often than what the miniatures actually
represent. As long as they're roughly in proportion...
> Sorry to hear that - sadly, it just reinforces the reasons why we're
As we across the briney have stated, sad words indeed. Understandable, but you
have a counter experience in Oz, right?
However, if/when FT III is born, I hope you can let some of the more
loyal folks by in small bulk packages and rates. While the books proudly
proclaim that special figs are not required, we all know the books SELL the
figs.
On the the NSL SDN/Fleet carrier, if you look back into the archives, I
think you will find long discussions on how the things are supposed to go
together. I think this may be one clue that there were a lot of undiagnosed
production problems. I know everyone I saw put together took a lot of green
stuff.
In this case, I never saw a good one.
Someday, I'll have to order one and an ESU super heavy direct to see the
difference.
***
But to get back to the point - I'd only buy a von Tegetthoff because I
thought it _looked_ good, not because I wanted to put one on the table
and needed the "right" miniature - the people I play with would (I think
rightly) think of that as Games-Workshop-syndrome(...)
***
However, a very POWERFUL syndrome, and ignored at peril.
On the side topic of how I got into gaming, I'd have to say Risk started me
thinking even approximately militarily on the table, though occasionally
having green soldiers and tanks meeting bb guns and small explosives on the
4th of July (in the Commonwealth, George III's Day of Shame...) are amongst my
earliest, fond memories, while people trying to get me to enjoy AH, beginning
with Afrika Corps and Blitzkrieg, kept interested.
Zocchi's Star Fleet Battle Manual game showed me my love of naval-based
sci-fi could show in games, and SPI with StarForce and StarSoldier gave
me a sophistication that blew me away at the time.
The books mentioned, and brief flings with PanzerBlitz/Leader, Star
Fleet Battles, and others, came later.
The_Beast
> Doug wrote:
> 4th of July (in the Commonwealth, George III's Day of Shame...)
Why shame? Giving what you ex colonial crazy cats have been upto since 1782 we
in Blighty are only to glad to be able to take one pace back and say "Nowt to
do with us guv!", but still be able to get you to bail us out when our
continental neighbours get a little to frisky, or we just need a loan. Seem's
like a good set up to me. Foward thinker that George III, only now does the
true scope of his genius shine through.
Cheers,
> However, even historicals can be made with a nice level of quality for
I have to say that I've been very impressed with the figures I've purchased
from Old Glory, which includes figures from their American Civil War 15mm and
25mm lines, their WW1 25mm line, and their samurai 25mm line. The castings
have been very nice. I never had a problem with any of the Essex 15mm
historicals I purchased, either. In contrast, I remember some really poor
Citadel figures from the late 80s where I had to paint around the fact that
the mould halves had shifted around the figure's face.
I have seen some pretty pitiful 15mm historicals, though. I suspect that there
is so little call for some lines that bad quality slips through. I think
historical players are more forgiving as they often have trouble finding
obscure figure lines. Fantasy miniature manufacturers have more demand, too,
which drives drives up the price and the sales margins.
> At 4:01 PM +0000 2/16/04, agoodall@att.net wrote:
Old Glory is Kirk's company here in Atlanta, GA.
> Jon wrote:
> But, if I want a Panzer III then I know can get
Jon, I'm always reading queries in rec.games.miniatures.historical as to
whether this figure line will look right with that figure line. I think scale
matching is more of an issue in historical figures. You might put up with
garbage from one manufacturer if they make something you want that exactly
matches the scale of the figures you currently use. You may just love one
aspect of their line (e.g. their infantry). When you finally expand into
another aspect of the line (e.g. their tanks), you will take the company's
garbage figures because you know you can fix them and they will be the same
scale. Another company may make a much better figure, but if it's slightly out
of scale it will look "worse" than the bad casting in the same scale.
Family.
You don't pick 'em, you don't always like them all the time (some more,
some less at any given moment) and in-house fights can really get
extreme. But they're still family.
I see the UK/USA relationship like that. Sort of like Mom and Dad got
divorced then remarried but found a way to be civil and cooperate with
each other so the His/Hers/ours/theirs thing is just a minor reality not
a big factor.. but let someone mess with the 'other' part of the family and
watch all the 'cousins' come up and make sure that nobody interferes while
their 'relation' scraps with someone. It may be their fight but you want to
make sure they don't get jumped at a disadvantage. (I used to let my younger
brother settle his own dust ups and as long as the fight was one on one and
reasonably fair I just watched.) If he lost
(not often) I made sure that the fight stopped once he was down - not
everybody plays by the Marquis of Queensberry rules - and if it was a
gang on one or if (real life example) Tony's big brother intervened (large age
and size wise) in their spats then I intervened.
We had a "proto-gang" (wannabes, small family based and not at all
organized hence they never became a big problem) and they tried that "let's
ambush and beat up the younger brother" thing once... but that's another
story.
An real world example: The UK tangled with Argentina in my lifetime; we "came
up" as it were, offered some 'advice' and 'technical support' but since it was
their fight and it seemed they could handle it nicely there never was any
thought of our becoming involved in 'their' fight. Now if a 'significant
player' had come up and looked like they were planning to intervene with
their "anti-capitalist socialist brothers" in the fight then they might
have had to be reminded it was not their fight either. Amazing how reasonable
people can be if the right reasoning is applied.
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:48:13 -0000 "Matt Tope" <mptope@omnihybrid.com>
writes:
> Doug wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:48:13 -0000 "Matt Tope" <mptope@omnihybrid.com>
writes:
> Doug wrote:
Uh huh... Sure... ri-i-i-i-ght.
LOL!
Old Glory has been the best combination of value and quality on the market and
has been since they released their 15mm ACW line. Essex figs are more
detailed, but a little more stylized than OG. The sheer variety
in the big bags of figures is remarkable - dozens of slight variations
on each figure. Even facial expressions - which are hard to sculpt
in15mm! We dumped a couple of bags to look at when we got the first order in
at GoB, there was one Union infantryman that was sneering.
If they'd do 15mm modern or SF they'd be a hit.
> agoodall@att.net wrote:
> However, even historicals can be made with a nice level of quality for
> warbeads@juno.com wrote:
> Amazing how
In other words...power projection!
Wargaming politics. Don'tcha love it? (Although, amphibious/airmobile
assaults on Argentina...with, say, Chinese supporting one side and the US the
other...no, too late, imagination keeps giving the troops power armour and
plasma weapons...;))