> As we are discussing Honor Harrington I have a question I need
Not quite; from what I've decerned from the reading, all of the ships are
DOUBLE spindles......
---
------ ------
stern ---------- ----------
---------- ---------- bow
------ ------
---
pretty lousy drawing, but I think you get the picture. Anyway, the ships have
two impeller wedges, one pointing forward, the other backward. I guess
they operate on the push-me, pull-you method. Anyway, the open end on
the bow is larger for some reason; my opinion is that in order to "move" a
ship, you squeeze the front or back wedge closer to a point. the smaller the
wedge tip, the more accel you get, but opposite of what you'd think. (ie pinch
the back wedge real tight, and you go forward, not backward....)
> campbelr@pop3.kunsan.af.mil wrote:
I will have to dig out the books, (I don't have them here) with regards to the
passages I read describing the ships, but so far, this sounds like what I've
read. (and this is to everyone commenting of HH ships, not just Randy.)
Randy, you've actually talked to David Weber? Hmmmm, I had a point to make
with him, you'd think he'd listen to me? Something he overlooked, and that
something would be a tactic Honor would use.....
Regarding HH book covers; yeah right, you're going to base ship design on some
artist's painting? Someone who might have just skimmed the book? So far, the
only cover I've seen that I liked and felt was a good representation of Honor
was the cover of Flag In Exile. Honor Among Enemies was one of the WORST
depictions; didn't look anything like her, and the ship was, in my
opinion, all wrong.
After thinking about it, I see the warships as being similar to two Star
Destroyers from Star Wars being attached butt-to-butt. Knock off the
bridge portion, and leave the smooth, angular mass, and that's it.
> > Randy, you've actually talked to David Weber?....
> I'll see if I can dig up his address again. I talked tto him by phone
Well, if it's private address, I can tell you and you can relay the message;
nothing top secret or anything.
My Point to Ponder is this. In one of the books, he mentions that fighting in
hyperspace is very dicey, mainly because your main grav shields are being used
for the sails, and missiles are useless because the impeller drive would
instantaeneously burn out when fired. And in the hyperspace battle that
followed, the ships relied on laser fire to blow each other away. (or rather,
the Manties got torched saving a convoy of human "cargo" while the Peeps had
to disengage 'cuz they lost too many nodes to go after the convoy, but I
digress....)
My thought is this: yeah, the missile impellers might not work, but the
missile launch tubes are over-glorified rail guns/mass drivers. Why
couldn't the ships launch the missiles without impellers and either (A) let
the 75 to 100 ton mass slam into the opposing ship, or (B) modify the warhead
to detonate by proximity (which, I think they already do)? The really cruel
thing is, Honor's universe detects other ships, etc. by their grav signature.
If the missiles are just thrown out without impeller drives working, the
opposing ship won't know what's coming until it's too late. Sounds like an
Honor tactic to me.....
As we are discussing Honor Harrington I have a question I need answering for
my HH FT conversion.
The ships have a gravity impellor wedge - is the wedge widest at the bow
or stern of the ship. I had thought it was widest at the stern but I have
found a passage that sort of contradicts that assumption, something about it
being
shallower at the stern - so which is it?
a) --==
--==
bow <------- stern
--==
--==
b)
==--
==--
bow <------- stern
==--
==--
Does anyone have a picture of a HH ship? I have tried to draw one according to
the information in 'A Short Victorious War' and quite frankly it looks stupid
- too long and spindly? Something like this but worse:
axis of symmetry
Plan view |
_ |
| \_____-------=============""""""""""|
| _____ |
|_/ -------=============,,,,,,,,,,|
|
Sincerely
> At 11:02 AM +0100 7/14/97, Tim Jones wrote:
The open Impeller wedge is widest at the front. I dont have a page reference
for that tho.
> a) --==
Actually, that's about right. See the cover of 'In Enemy Hands' for
what a warship looks like in the books. The earlier covers are so-so at
On Friday, July 11, 1997 12:32 AM, Peggy & Jeff Shoffner
> [SMTP:pshoffner@earthlink.net] wrote:
guess
> they operate on the push-me, pull-you method. Anyway, the open end
ship,
> you squeeze the front or back wedge closer to a point. the smaller
Thanks for the replies
Jeff - I am suprised that you think there are two wedges. Can you tell
me where this is described. I had always thought there was a single wedge,
generated from both sets of impellor nodes. In all the encounters they 'strike
the wedge' not 'wedges'.
I'm also confused about which end of the wedge is the more open, The 'up the
kilt shot' is up the stern of the ship as it is well described in several
battles if you look at a kilt its more flared towards the bottom (see
Braveheart) and suggests the wedge is kilt shaped.
/==\
|``|
_________ ||_________
=_______ ______=
|______|
| |
| |
| |
> On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Tim Jones wrote:
> Jeff - I am suprised that you think there are two wedges. Can you tell
> 'strike the wedge' not 'wedges'.
There are two "gravity bands" generated by the nodes; one "above" the ship,
one "below" it. Together they form the drive wedge. I think this is where the
confusion arises.
> I'm also confused about which end of the wedge is the more open, The
> Braveheart) and suggests the wedge is kilt shaped.
"Up the kilt" is a polite version of "up the ass", which I find rather
appropriate for a shot at the stern of a ship. Shots from the front are called
"down the throat" instead. It has nothing to do with how wide the respective
wedge openings are. (BTW, what true kilts I've seen have hanged straight down
from the hips as long as the wearer doesn't move...:)
The novels clearly state that the front aspect of the wedge is wider than the
stern aspect, which is why most warships dislike
being the chaser in a stern chase - the chaser is an easier target
than the fleeing ship.
Regards,
On Tuesday, July 15, 1997 9:32 AM, Oerjan Ohlson
[SMTP:f92-ooh@nada.kth.se]
wrote:
> "Up the kilt" is a polite version of "up the ass", which I find
OK - good explanation - I buy it
The wedge is widest at the bow, there is only one wedge made of two gravity
bands
The cover of the laster HH book in on the Baen Homepage
http://www.baen.com/
There is a partial but informative picture of a HH ship
Thanks
On Tuesday, July 15, 1997 9:18 PM, campbelr@pop3.kunsan.af.mil
> [SMTP:campbelr@pop3.kunsan.af.mil] wrote:
Whats a double ended hammer head look like - a hammer head shark
or the hitting end of a carpenters hammer. I lean towards the
hammer head shark because it looks better/meaner
The latest book cover has a semi-circular
hammer head (more like hammer head pic below).
Forwards
^
______ |
| \__===|
| |
| | carpentry hammer
| __ |
|______/ ===|
|
|
____-|
___===== |
| | hammer head shark
| |
|____________|
|
|
axis of symmetry
If only Dave Weber could add some pictures :-)
Tim: It's wider at the bow and narrower at the stern. They tralvel by being
"squeezed" between the roof and floor gravity bands.
Randy
Tiim: I wouldn't bother with looking aat the covers. Ii havn't seen many
illustrations which match the ships, especcialy when the ships
are so "visually un-exciting" as Dave's would be. You know, a shape,
"only a Captain would love" types. As for "up the kilt", I belive it is JUST
an expresion, it would be a biit harder to get away with, "Up the butt" I'd
think.:) Randy
Actually, merchant and non-warships are spindle shaped, (narrowing
down to the Impeller rings) while warships are double ended hammer heads,
containing the bow and stern chaser armements. (according to a conversation
with Dave I remember) Randy
> At 01:14 PM 7/11/97 -0700, you wrote:
<snip>
> Jeff Shoffner
Anyone interested in adapting the Honor Harrington series to FT standards,
should probably check out "The Unofficial David Weber Fan Club" at:
http://lyre.mit.edu/~deering/weber.html
There's a great mass of info here about all of Weber's books, including an
encyclopedia of info on the Honor Harrington universe. Unfortunately, there's
not a single authoritative description of the ships like everyone involved in
this discussion has been trying to hash out. Apart from that, the page is
still pretty good and informative.
Also, I finished HH7 _In Enemy Hands_ a couple of days ago. Really good
book and very exciting. But, I really hate cliff-hanger endings. This
one
left you hanging in the middle exactly like _In Death Ground_ did.
Peggy & Jeff Shoffner <pshoffner@earthlink.net> said;
> Randy, you've actually talked to David Weber? Hmmmm, I had a point to
I'll see if I can dig up his address again. I talked tto him by phone once in
awhile when I was stationed in Florida, and wrote back and forth before that.
(Started right after, "Insurection" came out. I thought I had all the StarFire
stuff, and here was a novel with weapons and stuff I had no clue about! I
suddenly felt dated!:) I need to ask if it's ok to give it out though, so I
willl have to try and get my wife to ask. It's a public list after all.
Randy
> On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, Peggy & Jeff Shoffner wrote:
> My Point to Ponder is this. In one of the books, he mentions that
...
> My thought is this: yeah, the missile impellers might not work, but
> detonate by proximity (which, I think they already do)? The really
Some reasons:
1) A ship (or missile) without a Warshawski sail is torn apart in a grav
wave (which is where most of the hyper travel takes place). Merely turning
your wedge off isn't enough to save you.
2) If you want to fight at missile ranges, pray that the enemy doesn't
change his course - because without maneuvering power, the missiles
can't react when he does... and the overwhelming part of a missile's velocity
comes from its own drive and the launching ship's velocity, not the missile
launcher. Sure, the opponent won't see the missiles on his radar until they
get fairly close, but when it takes the missiles
several minutes to reach firing range after they're seen...
3) Missiles _using_ their drives rarely get close enough to cause damage
with normal nuclear warheads. Scoring a direct (physical) hit is even
harder.
Also note that it _is_ possible to use missiles in hyperspace, as long
as you're not inside a grav wave. Read "Honor among Enemies", and you'll see:)