From: Oerjan Ohlson <oerjan.ohlson@t...>
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 12:21:25 +0100
Subject: RE: Holiday wish and a question about an FT weapon that isn't....
> Barclay, Tom wrote:
> Secondly FT:
Peter Mancini did just that last week (his Minbari Meson Beam and
Vorlon Neutron Beam are both crew-killers rather than ship-killers).
There have been several other versions before - including all "boarding
pod/blood worm" thingies, though you may want to rewrite their PSB a
bit.
Merry Christmas,
Oerjan Ohlson oerjan.ohlson@telia.com
"Life is like a sewer. What you get out of it, depends on what you put into
it."
- Hen3ry
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Subject: Re: [FT - DS - SG] Aliens (as in the non-human kind...)
Message-ID: <20001225.083519.6631.0.triphibious@juno.com>
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From: Glenn M Wilson <triphibious@juno.com>
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On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 23:26:46 -0500 Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
writes:
> On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 22:22:30 EST, Glenn M Wilson
Okay, either way, I wait. And that's okay, Space combat is middling way
down the list of priorities. The only reason I even have FT/@nd is the
winning of a gift certificate (used at con with vendors only type) at the last
local con (My third local and third ever con attendance.)
> Which of these will come out first, or maybe something else, is up in
Okay, late 2001.
> Allan Goodall awg@sympatico.ca
Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious
You don't have to be French to be a 'frog', or even human!
Nektons - Real Marines!
Starguard, Dirtside 2, Full Thrust, Ratner's Space Marines, Stellar
Conflicts and Uprisings, and Full Thrust/2nd. Resistance is everything!
________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Re FT-FIghter accel.
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 01:47:28 +1100
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From: "bif smith" <bif@bifsmith.fsnet.co.uk>
> Also, how about the MT missiles having different burnout settings,
Simple is good:
MT missiles move as per fighters, with and endurance of 2, and speed 24,
moving in the fighter phase ie before ship movement. Like Salvo Missiles, they
must go for the closest target within 6", 3" if vector.
That's it.
Some consequences that may not be apparent:
Note that if they get fired at range 24, they can then use a "reserve move" of
12" after ships have moved, just like a fighter, so provided the desired
target was within 12" of the original aimpoint, it can always be the
"closest". Thus they have an effective range of 36" (pinpoint accurate) or 42"
in 1 turn.
Alternately, they can hit things up to 54" away (48" + 6" homing), but
suffer the same problems as SMs re Banzai Jammers and predicting opponent's
course/speed, and take 2 turns to get there.
This gives MT missiles a unique flavour, while "re-using" existing
rules. Neat. Simple.
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From: "Peter Mancini" <peter_mancini@msn.com>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Kra'Vak
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:30:22 -0500
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What is the general idea for the Kra'vak? What are they physically like? How
do their motivations differ than the humans present in the game? Will they be
organized on the ground just like their human counterparts? If so, aren't they
just humans in alien costumes?
I suppose this is a bit silly to ask since BDS hasn't been published yet, but
I am new to the list after a 2 year hiatus so I need to be brought up to speed
on what The Great Maker (that would be Jon) has said on the subject.
--Peter
P.S. FT/SG are my two favorite miniatures games ever written. I like
things like BattleGround, Command Decision, Piquet (sometimes), but nothing
has
captured my imagination as much as GZG games.
_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Fighter House Rules.
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 12:48:53 -0600
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Hi, Folks, My fighter house rules, open for your comments. 1. That fighter are
launched and recovered during primary fighter movement phase. 2.Launching
fighters can placed anywhere within 6" inches of the carrier. Launching counts
as their primary fighter phase, but they can act normally Landing fighters
must be 6" of the carrier. 3. Any ship can launch or land fighters equal to
half of number of fighter bays left. 4. Any ship has deck crews equal to the
number of fighter bays (Be gone evil SFB spirits.) Which can land or recover
fighters, or rearm fighters. Example A light carrier can launch one fighter
group, recovery another fighter group, rearm two others. One has to assign
these task in order writing phase like DCP.
5. Rearming fighter, During the record-keeping phase, a d6 is rolled for
each fighter. if the result is equal to or greater than the strength of
fighter group it is rearmed. Running tab must be kept.
_____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______
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Subject: Re: Kra'Vak
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You can see the Kra'Vak at war in space and land here:
http://www.concentric.net/~Los/ft/lossf.htm
Los
> Peter Mancini wrote:
> What is the general idea for the Kra'vak? What are they physically
Will
> they be organized on the ground just like their human counterparts?
If so,
> aren't they just humans in alien costumes?
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Subject: Re: Kra'Vak
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Hi, Peter. I'm a poor one to answer, but as one of the few family-less
heathens currently working, I may be the only one to give a shot.
***
What is the general idea for the Kra'vak? What are they physically like? How
do their motivations differ than the humans present in the game? Will they be
organized on the ground just like their human counterparts? If so, aren't they
just humans in alien costumes?
***
Well, amongst the archived photos on the official GZG catalog, though not an
order site, you'll find the fig picures:
http://www.gtns.net/gzg/oldimages/sgk-2.jpg
Also, 1 and 3 instead of 2, but that's the best image. You'll notice a certain
similarity to certain visitors who 'played' both with Sly Stallone and Danny
Glover, but are currently found in several games dancing with Aliens.
The list made up a clan structure and history, but, again, I'd have to direct
you to the list achives and the Web Ring.
In the end, the diversity of human 'types' and the limitations of our
imaginations make human-like aliens the norm, it seems.
On the other hand, as our apparently most direct competion, one might expect
similarities of drive and needs. I like the Sa'vasku not entirely sure whether
to side with 'us or them'.
The_Beast
-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon
One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer - Adolf Hitler
From - Wed Jan 03 11:04:49 2001
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Subject: Whoops! Re: Kra'Vak
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All reading these words before 12/26, please ignore the implication you
might be either family-less or heathens! ;->=
The_Beast
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From: "Peter Mancini" <peter_mancini@msn.com>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Kra'Vak
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> From: devans@uneb.edu
Thanks friend, clearly they are The Predator. Interesting, I wonder if they
will seek things out in the Infrared and have cloaking technology?
I like the 'Aliens' they alien - sufficiently not human enough to be
interesting and thus have lots of Kryomech.
I hope you aren't working late today. If you work on a Sunday it must not
be a regular 9-5 job? Eh?
--Peter
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From: "Peter Mancini" <peter_mancini@msn.com>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Kra'Vak
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> From: Los <los@cris.com>
Very cool - that will take me some time to read! Good work.
--Peter
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***
Thanks friend, clearly they are The Predator. Interesting, I wonder if they
will seek things out in the Infrared and have cloaking technology?
I like the 'Aliens' they alien - sufficiently not human enough to be
interesting and thus have lots of Kryomech.
***
Interesting your first sentence mirrors SEVERAL posts to the group. I think UV
was also mentioned.
Don't recall personal cloaking being mentioned. Also, while I have the Kryomec
books and several figs, never delved deeply there. I'll put that on my list of
things to try again.
> From many of your earlier comments, I think you'll find Rot Hafen the
***
I hope you aren't working late today. If you work on a Sunday it must not
be a regular 9-5 job? Eh?
***
Actually, off at 15:00; and that talk of 'family-less' was all that.
I'll
be enjoying an Xmas eve tradtion with mum, sis, bro-in-law, niece and
niece's current SO, as well as my own SO, of pizza! ;->=
I'm just helping cover the shop so others can have full holidays. I'll be
working the first, too. My hardy partying days are long behind me.
The_Beast
-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon
One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer - Adolf Hitler
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Subject: Let's try this a different tack...
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Okay, let's assume that you have a task force equipped with FT thrust
weaponry. This means Beams (36, 24, 12 inch types) and Pulse Torpedoes plus
the odd needle beam. Further, assume you have an opponent equipped with Salvo
missiles (standard range 24" and ER 36" on Pat's Player's Aid) but you don't.
Assume same arcs (60 or 90 or whatever, but each fleet the same... <grin>)
Assume minimal fighters (say each task force has a
sprinkling of BB/BC with One BattleDreadNought (and one standard fighter
group each) and mostly cruisers and escorts. Okay so far?
*Now* while exact tactics will depend on exact fleet compositions and actions
of squadrons involved what over arching tactics should a
non-Salvo Missile armed force bear in mind when confronted with a
similar force that does use Salvo Missiles? Should they close and try and stay
close to use the Pulse Torpedoes and close range Beams? Or should they sit out
beyond 24" and try to chip away (and if so wouldn't you die
quickly versus ER - 36" - missiles?)
Also, Pulse torpedoes appear to very powerful weapons but it appears you
need two things to use them successfully - besides surviving to use them
on the run in - close ranges when firing and average plus die rolls when
rolling to hit and damage effects. And the 5 mass capacity for Pulse Torpedo
launchers is a bit steep for smaller cruisers and escorts.
And are Needle Beams as ineffective in practice as my first impression of
the rules/numbers seem to indicate? When they hit they are powerful but
the 9" range and the need to roll a six to hit make them make them an
apparent "do or die' weapon... I don't think anyone had/used them in
the game I played...
In the game I played the Player's Aid listed them (needle beams) as 12" and
had a different CRT value (1 to 4 zip, 5 1 hull box, 6 hull box and
selected system KO'ed.) Is that a MT or FB1/2 change?
There were no fighters in the game I played that I recall, but how does that
affect tactics when they are a minimal force (as per above) other
then justify PDAF/ADAF?
That's all for now. And it's probably pretty vague to the veterans but I am
trying to see how the weapon's interact between fleets.
Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious
You don't have to be French to be a 'frog', or even human!
Nektons - Real Marines!
Starguard, Dirtside 2, Full Thrust, Ratner's Space Marines, Stellar
Conflicts and Uprisings, and Full Thrust/2nd. Resistance is everything!
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From: "Oerjan Ohlson" <oerjan.ohlson@telia.com>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Let's try this a different tack...
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 23:00:56 +0100
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> Glenn M Wilson wrote:
> Okay, let's assume that you have a task force equipped with FT thrust
The beams (corresponding to FBx Class 3, 2 and 1 types) are more powerful (due
to being smaller) than their FBx counterparts; the Pulse Torp and Needle Beam
are weaker (mainly due to modified rules for them,
but the FB1 P-torp is also smaller and able to be multi-arc).
> Further, assume you have an opponent equipped with Salvo missiles
Then you either use very high thrust ratings and don't fly in straight lines,
or you have massive amounts of ADAF (or *extreme* amounts of PDAF on each
individual ship). Otherwise, you're up the wrong gulf with nothing to row
with, like.
> *Now* while exact tactics will depend on exact fleet compositions and
What weapon mix *exactly* do your ships carry? A-batteries are very
different tactically from C-batteries (never mind that C-batteries were
pointless in FT2!). Multi-arc beam batteries are very different
tactically from forward-arc-only Pulse Torps - you *can't* keep the
range open with the FT2 P-torps (unless your ships are thrust-8 or
faster - FT2 doesn't allow higher thrust ratings than 8, but FBx does),
since you have to move towards the target to point the weapons in the right
direction.
What other weapons, apart from the SMs, do the *enemy* use (will they be able
to outgun you at any particular range)? How heavy screens do
they use (are P-torps worthwhile at all)? What thrust ratings do your
and their ships have (can you control the range, or will they be able to fight
at the range they like)?
How heavy point defences do your ships have? How much of it is ADAF
(ie., do you gain any anti-missile coverage from flying in tight
formations, or does a tight formation only make you an easier target)?
What is good or bad tactics depend on all of these, and more.
BTW, normal-range missiles can hit you beyond range 24mu. That is to
say, they can hit up to 30mu away from where they were fired - 24mu
missile range + 6mu targetting radius - but all ships move between
missile launch and missile attacks.
> Also, Pulse torpedoes appear to very powerful weapons
The FT2 P-torps are only powerful *in FT2* because screens,
particularly level-3, were are very cheap and powerful (and therefore
very common). In FBx screens are big, expensive, and limited to a max
level of 2, which reduces the value of screen-ignoring weapons. The FBx
P-torps are smaller and longer-ranged than the FT2 ones, but they still
aren't particularly powerful *in FBx*.
> but it appears you need two things to use them successfully - besides
"Average plus die rolls" can make *any* weapon seem powerful. Conversely bad
die rolls can make any weapon look like crap.
> And the 5 mass capacity for Pulse Torpedo launchers is a bit steep
Yes. Which is why they were improved in FB1.
> There were no fighters in the game I played that I recall, but how
Depends entirely on how they're used.
> That's all for now. And it's probably pretty vague to the veterans
There are at least as many possible weapon interactions as there are
combinations of opposing (fleets+tactics), and there are quite a few
ways to design fleets as well as many different possible tactics for each of
those fleets. And that's assuming all ships, on *both* sides, are designed
using the same set of design rules: FT2 *OR* FBx.
Unfortunately, very few - if any - players have fought battles between
ships designed under different design rules - FT2 *AND* FBx, in the
same battle. You'll have to figure the interactions out for yourself, because
we simply don't know.
Regards,
Oerjan Ohlson oerjan.ohlson@telia.com
"Life is like a sewer. What you get out of it, depends on what you put into
it."
- Hen3ry
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To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu, sfconsim-l@egroups.com,
Starguard@egroups.com
Subject: [OT] Christmas Greetings!
Message-ID: <20001225.201958.6647.0.triphibious@juno.com>
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From: Glenn M Wilson <triphibious@juno.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 21:25:21 EST
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In less then four hours (It's 2011 hours (8:11 P.M. for non military,
non-nursing types) currently) it will be Christmas here in Saint Louis,
MO, USA. I know some of you already are technically in Christmas Day mode.
But in any and all cases, Good Christmas to you and your loved ones.
May this next year bring us closer to peace on the 'real' world [but not on
the game board!] Though it contradicts my expectations for this world, I dream
of a time when 'warfare' is only a memory, and a dim one at that, and it can
truly be said "...and on Earth Peace to men on whom His favor shines.." {Luke
2:14b NIV} and it will apply to all mankind.
Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious
You don't have to be French to be a 'frog', or even human!
Nektons - Real Marines!
Starguard, Dirtside 2, Full Thrust, Ratner's Space Marines, Stellar
Conflicts and Uprisings, and Full Thrust/2nd. Resistance is everything!
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> From: devans@uneb.edu <with much snippage>
I'll
> be enjoying an Xmas eve tradtion with mum, sis, bro-in-law, niece and
Glad to hear it. I know some on our list are on the front lines in dark
corners of this world. I have friends who are soldiers, cops, EMT's and the
like and they tend to miss many of the major holidays. I forgot a gift
yesterday and had to go to the Mos Eisly Mall, a vile pit of scum and
villany..., anyway - I think shop keeping on the 24th ranks pretty high
up there with duty requiring combat pay.
Enjoy one and all,
--Peter
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Subject: Re: [OT] Christmas Greetings!
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:22:30 -0600
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To the day, the only battles fought on the 4' x 6' sheets of polystyene.
Hear!!Hear!
[quoted original message omitted]