> Ground Zero Games wrote:
If memory serves, the 1914-17 copy of Jane's Fighting Ships of WW1, has
a listing of most of these terms including ranks, ect. It covers most of the
european and I think Japanese languages. I don't have my copy at the moment
tho... (I do know that the ship info is questionable, but I tend to think that
the language translations are more accurate.)
> Ground Zero Games wrote:
> Space Navy/Space Fleet/Space Force (whatever term would be most likely
> If anyone can help with any of these, I'd be very grateful; please
In der ehmahlige zeit wahr ich Ingeneur, mitarbeiter fuer Krupp-Atlas
Elektronik GmbH....
In former times, I was an Engineer, an employee of Krupp-Atlas
Elektronik Company Limited.
No, I'm not a native German speaker, but picked up a fair bit of the
lingo. I worked extensively with ex-Leutnants usw. And of course, even
_I_ could understand the argot of "Raumschiff Enterprise"... "Scotti,
Beamen mir zuruck!"
I also have a number of contacts - email addresses - of ex- and serving
members of the Bundesmarine.
I can also help a little with Russki. At one time, it was -ah- useful
for me to know Naval technical terms of the
Navy-formerly-known-as-Soviet. Things like Bolshoi
Protiivolodochniikorabl (Large Anti-Submarine-Vessel) and Raketny
Kreyser (Rocket Cruiser).
German is surprisingly easy. Just agglutinate. Hence the old joke, the
archetypical "I was there" from der Zwitte Weltkrieg (the Second
Worldwar):- "Wenn ich
geheimforschungsvergeltungsunterseeboatfleugzeugtraeger matrose war" or:
"If I (a) secret-research-retaliation-submarine-aircraft-carrier sailor
was".
BTW it's becoming official: instead of the o-mit-umelaut usw (the o with
two dots above it etc) it's now "officially sanctioned" by the Beamters
(Beaureaucrats) to have oe instead. Hence "traeger" instead of "trager",
"fuer" instead of "fur".
Hi everyone,
This is a request for help from any list members (overseas or not) who have
good knowledge of certain languages ("I speak two: English and
Profane...").
For the fleet background in the Fleet Book, I need some ACCURATE
translations of certain terms - some I could do from dictionaries, but
this kind of translation is notoriously unsafe (and highly amusing for native
speakers...)
The translations needed are:
Navy (or Fleet)
Space Navy/Space Fleet/Space Force (whatever term would be most likely
to be used in the given language)
plus any translations of ship type names (Cruiser, Destroyer, Battleship etc.)
and Naval Ranks (officers and ratings) from the relevant national
navies (ie: present-day counterparts).
I need these in a) German, for the NSL; b) French (and maybe Italian as
well) for the FSE; c) Russian and/or Chinese for the ESU.
I think I know a few people who speak American...:)
If anyone can help with any of these, I'd be very grateful; please note that I
need them to be as "correct" as possible, so ideally they need to be
from native speakers or at least someone very fluent - I don't need just
literal translations, but need to know what words/phrases a native
speaker would use.
Please either email them to me personally if you're sure about the
translations, or to the list (if no-one objects) if you want other
members' opinions on them first!
BTW, if anyone would like to contribute similar translations in any other
languages, for forces such as the Islamics (maybe Iranian?), Japanese
defence fleet, Pan-Africans, Scandinavian Federation (Swedish?), New
Israelis etc., these would be gratefully received as well for future
use.....
Thanks in anticipation,
Hi Jon,
I work with a couple of chinese folks who can get you translations, but do you
really want them in chinese characters? If so do you want the answers as a
scanned file or as a fax?
If you post a list of all the terms you are after I'll try to get straight
back to you as quick as I can coerce them into a translation!
> You wrote:
> BTW, if anyone would like to contribute similar translations in any
OK, here's the Swedish terms:
(The) Navy/Fleet = Flotta(n)
(The) Space Navy = Rymdflotta(n)
Ship classes:
Courier = Kurirskepp
Scout = Patrullskepp/Spaningsskepp (Patrullskepp is literally Patrol
Ship, but I think it's likely the same ships will perform both roles) Corvette
= Korvett (..."Little sausage"?! Korv = Sausage, "ette" = French diminutive
form...<VBG>) Frigate = Fregatt Destroyer = Jagare (literally "Hunter")
Cruiser = Kryssare Light = Lätt Heavy = Tung
Armoured = Pansar- (eg, Armoured Cruiser = Pansarkryssare)
Battlecruiser = Slagkryssare Battleship (and anything bigger) = Slagskepp
Carrier = Hangarfartyg (...though "fartyg" is very specifically a naval
vehicle; "Hangarfarkost" (Carrier Vehicle), "Hangarrymdskepp" (Carrier
Spaceship) or something similar seems more likely.)
Since three of the five Scandinavian countries are stubborn constitutional
monarchies, I strongly suspect that a Scandinavian Federation will be a
United Kingdom - only it's the Government that's united instead of the
Crown ;-) Swedish or English would probably be the common language(s) -
most of the others understand us (but we usually don't understand them), and
everyone understands English...
I'm very hazy at Royal Navy (_your_ Royal Navy, that is, not one of
ours) ranks, but if you send a more specific list I can dig up the closest
equivalents in the Royal Swedish Navy.
Later,
On Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:57:39 -0500, Stuart Murray
> <smurray@aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
> I work with a couple of chinese folks who can get you translations, but
Damn, beat me to it. Chinese is probably the easiest for me. I know a couple
of people who speak fluent Cantonese and Mandarin.
Unfortunately, while I "speak" more than a dozen computer languages
fluently, the only spoken language that I know--other than English--is
Scots. So much for four years of Ontario school French...
I've opened my copy of 'Jane's Fighting Ships of World War I', a
sort-of
compilation/distillation of issues of Jane's from 1914-1919, and found a
multi-language glossary of many naval terms in English, German, French,
Italian, Russian, Spanish, Swedish, Dutch, and Japanese.
Unfortunately, I fear much of this would be dated; the German for battleship
is 'linienschiff', and think this translates to 'ship of the line', something
I relate to sailing ships, and not what I've seen more recently. Also,not in
the same glossary, several of the naval lists have ranking descriptions.
Again,
probably out-of-date.
I could type what I have found, but wonder if it might be worth your while to
check a current, or nearly current Jane's. Alas, I can't help you here; in the
current upheaval that is my office, even my mid '70s Jane's
competitor(Weyer's?) has been amongst the missing for far too long.
Otherwise, I'll see if I can scare up something contempory should you still
need it. I haven't bought all these books just to have them prop up a
three-legged table, you know! (Hmm.. How WILL I prop this table up while
I'm searching these tomes?)
The_Beast
If you don't find a taker on the German let me know. While not a native
speaker, I have access to one. As well with a dictionary in hand and being a
ok german speaker, may be able thi do the job.
> Hi Jon,
No, I need them in "English" characters, as near as they (phonetically?)
translate!
> If you post a list of all the terms you are after I'll try to get
As to what is needed, here is the reply I just got re: the French versions
- the same (or similar) in Chinese would be wonderful!
------------------------------------
> The translations needed are:
I can give you some for the French. I am a naval officer, and in Canada, we
use British rank names when speaking English, but French names when speaking
French. I've spoken French nearly all my life and am quite fluent in it.
> Navy (or Fleet)
La Marine - The Navy
La Flotte - The Fleet
> Space Navy/Space Fleet/Space Force (whatever term would be most likely
Hmm. I don't know of a precedent for this, so I'll give you some options.
La Flotte spatiale (very important not to capitalise "spatiale") La Marine
spatiale
- The Space Fleet, and The Space Navy respectively
L'Astromarine : "the Astro-navy", or "star-Navy"
> plus any translations of ship type names (Cruiser, Destroyer,
Ship Types:
Frigate: Fregate ("/" accent on the first e) This gets used for
destroyers more often than not as well. Corvette: Corvette
Croiseur: Cruiser ? <- not sure on this one. Might want to dictionary
check.
Porte-Avions: This means "airplane carrier". You'd probably have to
change it somewhat. "Chasseur" means "fighter" so "porte-chasseurs"
would
be appropriate; becomes "fighter-carrier".
Cuirasses (with "/" on the e): Literally: "Ironclads". Can be used to
denote a battleship, I believe. (sing. "Cuirasse" with "/")
Navette: Shuttle
French Ranks:
Enseigne Deuxieme Classe - Ensign (US)
Enseigne Premiere Classe - Sublieutenant
Lieutenant de Vaisseau - Lieutenant
Capitaine de Corvette - Lieutenant-Commander
Capitaine de Fregate - Commander
Capitaine de Vaisseau - Captain
Contre-Amiral - Commodore/RAdm(LH)
Vice-Amiral - Rear Admiral/RAdm(UH)
Vice-Amiral d'escadre - Vice Admiral
Amiral - Admiral
Not sure of the French noncommissioned ranks, as Canada has its own NCM
organisation... You'll have to ask someone else.
Hope this helps somewhat.
In Russian (more to follow when I find my books):
> Navy (or Fleet)
Flot
> Space Navy/Space Fleet/Space Force (whatever term would be most likely
Voyenna-Kosmicheskiy Flot (lit. Space-War Fleet)
Cheers,
You could try http://www2.echo.lu/edic/ so far I have done the following
searches
English Keyword cruiser Dutch Keyword kruiser Danish Keyword krydser Spanish
Keyword crucero Portuguese Keyword cruzador French Keyword cruiser German
Keyword Kreuzer Italian Keyword panfilo da crociera
and English Keyword destroyer Dutch Keyword torpedobootjager Danish Keyword
destroyer Spanish Keyword destructor
Portuguese Keyword destroyer;contra-torpedeiro
French Keyword destroyer German Keyword Zerstoerer Italian Keyword silurante;
cacciatorpediniere
I think it might be wise for you just to write a list of what you want and
have those who can send you the translations to yourself direct
I can help you with Indonesian if you want :-)
> At 19:54 19/01/98 +0000, you wrote:
SNIP
> Navy (or Fleet)
SNIP
> BTW, if anyone would like to contribute similar translations in any
I did a Higher in Russian at school, and have a long-standing interest
in the Soviet armed forces, so here goes:
NB, remember Russian adjectives etc change with gender, so -aya endings
go
with -a nouns, and -iy with (most) consonants.
Fleet Flot Military Voyenniy Sea Morskoi Space Kosmicheskiy Force Voiska
Space Fleet Kosmicheskiy Flot Space Force Kosmicheskaya Voiska
Space Navy Voyenno-Kosmicheskiy Flot
Admiral Admiral
Vice-Admiral Vitse-Admiral
Captain Kapitan Lieutenant Leytenant Sailor Matros
Ship Korabl' Battleship Liney Korabl' "Ship of the line" Cruiser Kreyser
(Raketniy=Missile, Legkiy=Light, Bolshoi or Tyazhyoliy=Large or Heavy, Broniy=
Armoured) Destroyer Eskadrenniy Minonosyets (literally "Squadron Minelayer")
Frigate\escort Storozhevoy Korabl' (Escort or Guard
Ship)
Submarine Podvodnaya lodka (Underwater Boat)
Cutter (incl. missile boats) Kater Fast Skoriy
Anti- Protiv eg Protivozduchniy=Anti-air,
Protivolodochniy= Anti-submarine
Cruise missile Krylataya Raketa Nuclear (powered) Atomniy
They liked 3-letter type abbreviations and often used
constructions
like "Large Anti-submarine Ship": Bolshoi Protivolodochniy Korabl'
(BPK)
eg Kresta II; Raketniy Kreyser (RKR) eg Kirov
Any navy with a Russian tradition would be certain to have a ship named
"Pamyat Merkurya", after a heroic vessel from the wars against Turkey.
If they're lefties, Potemkin, of course, and heaps of "place-name
Komsomolyets" and "Red place-name" ships. Rurik is a good bet for any
Russians.
That's all I can think of off the cuff; I can probably find more if needed.
Rob
In article <199801192022.UAA22645@ns0.flexnet.net>, Ground Zero Games
<jon@gzero.dungeon.com> writes
> For the fleet background in the Fleet Book, I need some ACCURATE
Jon, why dont you try posting this message to sci.military.naval. Im sure that
should do the job.
If you dont have access to that newsgroup, I could do it for you.
Regards.
Jon, I can provide a very good list of the WWII period for Germany
and Japan. Is this of use to you?
I suspect that not much has changed for the regular services in the last 50
years. (As far as rank titles that is.)
Bye for now,