OK, 3rd times the charm, right? (why do I hear snickering in the background?)
For those who don't care to read the entire thing again, here's what changed:
(1) Corrected my error on Class 3 BPS pricing. The progression is 4 MASS per
class and POINT COST of MASSx3.
(2) Changed BEs so they do not have to match BPS class, but DO have a limit on
the nymber of EPs that may be channeled through them.
(3) A couple notes have been added for explanation of why I did certain
things. They are separated by a carriage return and brackets [].
Heavy Beams
Heavy Beams consist of two (or more) systems on the SSD: the Beam Power System
(BPS) and at least one Beam Emitter (BE).
The BPS is a combination of generator, capacitor, and discharger that can
store a number of Energy Points (EPs) up to twice its class rating. It can
discharge any number of stored EPs through any given Emitter.
The BPS generates power at the beginning of each turn, During Step 1: Write
Orders for All Ships. The BPS rolls two dice for each class rating, which are
scored like Beam dice. The result is the number of EPs added to the BPS's
capacitor, up to its maximum. For example, on a Class 2 BPS the rolls
are 2, 3, 5, and 6 (re-roll of 3). This generates (0+0+1+2) 3 EPs.
When taking damage and a BPS fails a threshold check, they are not
automatically knocked out of commission. Instead, they are treated in much the
same manner as drives: the first hit halves the capacity of the system, making
it equal to rather than twice its rating, and also halves the number of dice
rolled for EP generation. The second hit destroys the system and inflicts an
additional number of damage points equal to the number of EPs currently stored
in the BPS
Beam Power System: Class 1 4 MASS 12 POINT COST Class 2 8 MASS 24 POINT COST
Class 3 12 MASS 36 POINT COST Âetc.
[NOTE: Even though I could have done Class 1-6, at 2 MASS and the same
cost per MASS, so it would be 1 die and 1 point capacitance per Class, that
would make damage a real pain. I'd have to round down on halving, and everyone
would just buy even numbers anyway.]
EPs must be channeled through a Beam Emitter. Each BE is linked to a single
BPS, and may make use of any EPs stored therein, up to its emission limit. A
BE must be larger to handle a larger power load channeled through it. A BE may
use a number of EPs up to twice its class. When firing, each EP assigned to a
BE allows one die roll. Subtract one from this die for each full 6 MU of
range, and the result is the damage done to the target. For example: A ship
allocates 3 EPs to a BE, firing at a target 15" away. The 3 dice roll 2, 4,
and 5. The dice are scored 0, 2, and 3, resulting in 5 damage points to the
target. Emitters are affected normally by threshold rolls. Emitters fire
though only one arc.
Beam Emitter: Class 1 1 MASS 3 POINT COST Class 2 2 MASS 6 POINT COST Class 3
3 MASS 9 POINT COST Âetc.
[NOTE: Couldn't do the class# = # of EPs allowed, as it would have
required fractional accounting, which is BAD. Besides, this way it matches the
BPS system more closely. Changing the Emitter rules to allow for a variety of
BE types on a single BPS gives designers a great deal of flexibility.]
I would keep it simpler by changing it to: When a BPS fails a threshold check,
it looses its charge. The ship takes
damage equal to 1/2 of the stored charge (round up). The BPS can now
only
store 1/2 of its original capacity until repaired. A 2nd threshold
failure (if unrepaired) or a successful needle attack destroys the BPS and
releases
its charge. The charge, again, does damage equal to 1/2 the stored
charge (round up).
BPS appear to be a means of getting a cheaper P-Torp (or a more powerful
P-Torp depending on how you look at it). It having two icons on the SDD
makes it more vulnerable to threshold checks. But the large size would
probably limit it to larger ships anyway (delaying the threshold check). Also,
this is the only offensive system that limits the effect of threshold
checks. So, taking damage from a failed check is a good trade-off. I
suggested using damage = 1/2 the stored charge so that this damage is
limited. An added benefit of the system above is the player must decide if it
is better to repair a BPS and risk greater damage from threshold
checks/EMP/Needle or use a damaged one and have less offensive
firepower.
One other thing, how is the hit probability made? Same a P-Torp?
0-6 2+, 6.x-12 3+, 12.x-18 4+, 18.x-24 5+, 24.x-30 6 only
If so, then you are not only getting a better chance to damage at close range,
but also more damage. Again, this would be the only system to do this. If you
were saying that it was an automatic hit and only the damage is reduced by
range, I feel that this is too powerful. If you want that, then use a Wave
Gun.
-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
-----
> -----Original Message-----
[snip]
> When taking damage and a BPS fails a threshold check, they are not
[snip]
> OK, 3rd times the charm, right? (why do I hear snickering in the
<snicker>
> The BPS generates power at the beginning of each turn, During Step 1:
Write
> Orders for All Ships. The BPS rolls two dice for each class rating,
OK but cumbersome. The less die rolling and figuring, the better. I say roll 1
die per class level, divided by 2 for total EPs, round down. Numbers for EP
are virtually the same, statisitcally with half the dice and easier figuring.
> Beam Power System:
> [NOTE: Even though I could have done Class 1-6, at 2 MASS and the same
True, but that measn that 2/4/6 are still the most useful descriptors of
capacitance than Class 1/2/3. But that's a semantic value only
> Beam Emitter:
> [NOTE: Couldn't do the class# =3D # of EPs allowed, as it would have
Disagree: Beam Emitter: (# = EP emitter is capable of passsing) Emitter 1 1
MASS 2 POINT COST Emitter 2 1 MASS 3 POINT COST Emitter 3 2 MASS 4 POINT COST
Emitter 4 2 MASS 6 POINT COST Emitter 5 3 MASS 6 POINT COST Emitter 6 3 MASS 9
POINT COST
Or some such progression. Sometimes you need the mass, sometimes you need the
points.
G'day Schoon, Brian, Noam, everybody,
> Schoon wrote:
I think we're getting there!
> (2) Changed BEs so they do not have to match BPS class, but DO have a
OK you've convinced me!;)
> The BPS generates power at the beginning of each turn
I'll try and have a go this way and Noams way this weekend and see which
flows faster/confuses me less and get back to you (though 4 days is a
long time on the mailer so we'll probably all off discussing something
completely different by then).
> When taking damage and a BPS fails a threshold check, they are not
Taking note of Brains suggestions maybe they should also lose their stored
energy at this point, don't know if they really need to hurt the ship yet
though I think that's best left to the final KAPOW!
> BPS appear to be a means of getting a cheaper P-Torp (or a more
Brian responded:
> BPS appear to be a means of getting a cheaper P-Torp (or a more
Certainly does if SMs are anything to go by!
> One other thing, how is the hit probability made? Same a P-Torp?
> range, but also more damage. Again, this would be the only system to do
> this.
There is no to hit, what you roll is the damage you do. OK automatic hits
maybe bad ion some peoples opinion, but in the end I THINK it pans out (maybe
someone with more time can do the number up and prove me wrong, as
usual) as with P-torp you have to hit then roll damage so you can
potentially do just as much damage at 30 as at 6 inches. Whereas with HBs you
do more damage at close, but unless you're phenomenally good at rolling 6s
then you're going to do naff all damage at range (especially if you
stick in a modifier due to screens - Schoon hasn't stated either way on
this so he may not, I probably will). And to fall back on and old excuse
"it ain't our fault"... that's the way they were set-up in EFSB and like
I said before I just don't like the idea of changing them too much.
> If you were saying that it was an automatic hit and only the damage is
Well they're startin' to cost as much... and besides you all know what I think
of the wave guns current abilities;)
Beth
Hello again all,
In a message dated 02/01/2000 4:20:03 PM Central Standard Time,
> Noam.Izenberg@jhuapl.edu writes:
> > The BPS generates power at the beginning of each turn, During Step
Numbers for
> EP are virtually the same, statisitcally with half the dice and
I would like to toss out for you all to discuss another option for recharging
heavy beams...
The BPS generates power directly from the main drive of the vessel. During
the orders-writing phase, the player may spend unused MD points toward
charging the capacitor. EX: A top secret experimental UNSC prototype BB
(thrust-4) plots its course as P2+2 and shunts 2 points toward its empty
BPS giving it a total charge of 2 EPs ready to be expended during the weapons
fire phase or stored for later use. Maneuver thrust can not be used to charge
the BPS.
Comments, critiques?
Bill
Ummm, thats a total of 6 MD points.
Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
[mkw] Admiral Peter Rollins; Task Force Zulu
[pirates] Prince Rupert Raspberry; Base Commander
> -----Original Message-----
> charging the capacitor. EX: A top secret experimental UNSC prototype
In a message dated 02/01/2000 9:32:16 PM Central Standard Time,
> Brendan.Robertson@dva.gov.au writes:
> Ummm, thats a total of 6 MD points.
Aack! That UNSC BBX must be more top secret and experimental than I
expected! ;-)
Bill
> When a BPS fails a threshold check, it looses its charge. The ship
I actually find your method LESS simple than it stands now. Maybe I'm not
getting it right.
> BPS appear to be a means of getting a cheaper P-Torp (or a more
I found that the uncertainty of charging and the two icon threshold makes up
for the slightly increased efficiency.
> One other thing, how is the hit probability made? Same a P-Torp?
No, It's not an automatic hit except at ranges less than 6 MU, and after that
the likelyhood that you'll still be in arc of the proper BE is significantly
reduced.
One roll does both to-hit AND damage. Roll low: you miss; roll high: hit
and do that much damage (reduced by range).
For example: at 13" roll 1 die:
1-2 gives no damage - a miss
3-6 gives 1-4 points respectively - a hit
The P-Torp does far greater damage at range, but sacrifices "close in
accuracy."
> OK but cumbersome. The less die rolling and figuring, the better. I say
The problem with this is that Class 1 BPS and Class 3 BPS both generate the
same amount of power. That's not right.
> True, but that measn that 2/4/6 are still the most useful descriptors
True. I'm willing to concede that if that's what people want.
> Disagree:
I can see this. Do people want this much granularity. 3 Classes works fine; so
does your proposal, but I'm trying to keep this simple.
> I'll try and have a go this way and Noams way this weekend and see
We just need some weay of making a higher class BPS generate more power than a
lower class one. Otherwise it's far better to buy smaller ones.
> Taking note of Brains suggestions maybe they should also lose their
Agreed. I'll add that.
> There is no to hit, what you roll is the damage you do. OK automatic
Hey again!
In a message dated 02/01/2000 4:20:03 PM Central Standard Time,
> Noam.Izenberg@jhuapl.edu writes:
> > Beam Power System:
Noam has me thinking here. Maybe we we need to bring back the A-B-C
designations and use them for these heavy beams BPS. What if we had a system
like this:
__BPS__________Mass_____Pt Cost_____EP Capacity
.Class
A..................4................12...................2..........
.Class
B..................8................24...................4..........
.Class
C................12................36...................6..........
and on and on as high as we need to go.
Comments?
Bill
> The BPS generates power directly from the main drive of the vessel.
During
> the orders-writing phase, the player may spend unused MD points toward
A very intersting concept, but very difficult to balance correctly. Larger
vessel, which typically have lower thrust ratings would then be slower to
recharge their BPS than smaller "destroyer sized" vessels.
> Noam has me thinking here. Maybe we we need to bring back the A-B-C
This would work. It certainly avoids the # confusion.
Hiya Schoon, list,
In a message dated 02/01/2000 10:15:42 AM Central Standard Time,
> schoon@aimnet.com writes:
> Beam Emitter:
I have been thinking, and I'd like to find a way to maintain a single class of
emitter if at all possible. What if the only choice available were the class 3
emitter? Mass 3, cost 9, capable of doing what the 1s and 2s do but
prohibitive enough to discourage the cheap arc-spread.
Comments?
Bill
Do you reroll sixes like in EFSB? Example: At range 13 you roll a 6 and the
target has level 1 screens, so this whould be 3 damage points. But since you
rolled a six you get to reroll and you add the results of this dice to the
total unmodified by range or screens. A 5 would mean a total of 8 damage
points. A 6 would mean 9 damage points and another reroll.
Oliver Dewey Upshaw III odupshaw3@hotmail.com odupshaw3@cs.com
"Ms. Wolversham, you are authorized to return fire!"
David Weber The Short Victorious War
In a message dated 2/1/00 11:34:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> schoon@aimnet.com writes:
<< One roll does both to-hit AND damage. Roll low: you miss; roll high:
hit and do that much damage (reduced by range).
For example: at 13" roll 1 die:
1-2 gives no damage - a miss
3-6 gives 1-4 points respectively - a hit
The P-Torp does far greater damage at range, but sacrifices "close in
accuracy."
Schoon >>
In a message dated 02/02/2000 6:28:47 AM Central Standard Time,
> ODUPSHAW3@cs.com writes:
> Do you reroll sixes like in EFSB?
I'm also in favor of this. I have been going on the assumption that Schoon's
write-ups only covered the differences from the EFSB leaving as many
similarities as possible.
Bill
> ODUPSHAW3@cs.com wrote:
I'm in favour. I like the "slice n dice" concept. Mass/BP should be
adjusted accordingly of course.
> Do you reroll sixes like in EFSB?
I'm yet another individual who prefers this. It can make for a short life
expectancy for some ships though.
> OK but cumbersome. The less die rolling and figuring, the better. I
> The problem with this is that Class 1 BPS and Class 3 BPS both generate
No: Class 1 rolls 1 die, divided by 2 (avg 1.75 rounded to 1) Class 3 rolls 3
die, divided by 2 (avg 5.25 rounded to 5)
As opposed to: Class 1 rolls 2 beam dice (avg 1.6 rounds to 1) Class 3 rolls 6
beam dice (avg 4.8 rounds to 4)
> Beam Emitter: (# = EP emitter is capable of passsing)
> I can see this. Do people want this much granularity. 3 Classes works
Point well taken. Doesn't bother me too much though, as the rules apply exacly
the same, the complexity is only in the ship design phase, and people can
ignore the odd numbers completely if they want. If we're considering
making hull a buy-per-box system (as in the current FT III thread with
St.Jon's own cryptic words), then that level of complexity (in ship
_design_ at
least) is just around the corner.
OTOH I _still_ like the one-size-fits-all emitter best. Again,
simpler=better.
> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:24:18 -0800
Numbers for
> >EP are virtually the same, statisitcally with half the dice and
hi all,
actually, what i came up with was to name the BPS with max EP
capacity, recharge dice = 1/2 BPS rating (round down, 1 min),
mass x 2/die EP, cost = mass x 3. so a BPS-2 would hold 2 EP
and have 1 die recharge.
for emitters, i classed them for the number of EP they can shoot,
1 mass/EP, cost = mass x 3. emitters may shoot less than their
capacity (but no extra range bonus).
anyway, this was my idea (so far) to keep things simple.
dave
> >I'll try and have a go this way and Noams way this weekend and see
I just have the system generate half of its rated max every turn, simple and
hard to mess up. I felt that the method in EFSB was too random and I did not
want to use a system that tracked all other power usage. I did not want the
capacitor to fill up in only 1 turn, but 3 was too many, so the half charge a
turn seemed to fit.
Also here is how I implemented HBs into my Sci-Fi Crossover B5 ships. I
converted the ships to FB1 for all other systems, but for the HBs, I think I
did the capacitor at 4 mass plus its 2 times its class (a class 6 capacitor
would then be 16 mass) and each Beam Emitter was 2 mass. Costs were 3 per
mass. I don't have my modified spreadsheet here with me so I can't be sure but
those are what I remember and I'll check tonight.
> I have been thinking, and I'd like to find a way to maintain a single
The problem with a single class of Emitter is that some one is going to get
screwed on the MASS and POINT COST. If we make the Class 3 the only one
available, then those who buy Class 1 and 2 BPS are paying throught the nose.
The multi-class method is necessary, IMO, for balance and variety.
> Do you reroll sixes like in EFSB?
Good heavens no. That would make them WAY too over the top.
> Class 1 rolls 1 die, divided by 2 (avg 1.75 rounded to 1)
Got it, however this is too much power. If you use this system, the battery
will virtually always be full.
> As opposed to:
Even my system bothered me a little bit that the power regeneration was a
little too effective. I would have rounded normally on all those numbers
(2
and 5 for your system, 2 and 5 for mine).
> OTOH I _still_ like the one-size-fits-all emitter best. Again,
<rant mode> Play balance!!! One size fits all is like FT2 hulls: it can't be
properly balanced and people can them take advantage of the loophole in the
MASS/POINTS.
<rant mode off>
> I just have the system generate half of its rated max every turn,
This is simple. It would work. What say the list?
> On 2-Feb-00 at 11:00, Sean Bayan Schoonmaker (schoon@aimnet.com) wrote:
How about: half every turn.
If it fails a threshold it drops to 1/2. Any stored points in excess of
its new max are taken as damage, 1-1.
On the second threshold any stored points taken as damage 1-1.
> On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 BDShatswell@aol.com wrote:
> I would like to toss out for you all to discuss another option for
During
> the orders-writing phase, the player may spend unused MD points toward
> charging the capacitor. EX: A top secret experimental UNSC prototype
problem: consider 10-mass and a 100-mass ships mounting HBs. both spend
a thrust point to boost the capacitor; both gain 1 extra point. now, the
10-mass ship just used 0.5 mass of drive to do that, whereas the
100-mass
ship used 5 mass. thrust is not something that you can use in this way; otoh,
it might work if you added points equal to the mass of drive used, or half of
it, or something.
tom