Is there still a place in GZG's Future History, for the Jumbo Jet? What
about other aeroplanes like turbo-props, small passenger jets, cargo
planes, etc.? Would they have all disappeared? Or would they still be in use?
Colony worlds have a low population, but I would expect populations of
two or three million to be easily attainable after, say, 50-100 years of
colonisation. New Zealand has a population of 3.5 million, yet it has it's own
fleet of jets and other aircraft (Air New Zealand). So do even smaller places
like Fiji, Tonga and Cook Islands. So, after landing on planet from the
orbital scramjet, is it likely you could need to take a conventional plane to
get to other places on the planet?
> Is there still a place in GZG's Future History, for the Jumbo Jet?
What
> about other aeroplanes like turbo-props, small passenger jets, cargo
But do they build their own, or buy them from someone like Boeing? If the
latter, then you have to assume that either a) planes don't need to be
specialized for each planet's atmosphere/gravity/weather/whatnot, or b)
that if they do have to be specialized, there's a large enough market for
incentive.
> So, after landing on planet from the orbital scramjet, is it
I wouldn't think they'd build airports. Maybe VTOL or STOL craft operating as
"air taxi" service. (In a similar way, I don't see a need to build a hugely
expensive road net like the US highway system. I would expect "hovercraft
trails" would be graded, perhaps, but not paved. Grass might grow there, but
passing vehicles would clip anything growing too high.) Obviously with grav
vehicles, there's no distinction between air and ground transport, and no need
for roads or airports, just traffic control protocol and network.
Andrew spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> Is there still a place in GZG's Future History, for the Jumbo Jet?
What
> about other aeroplanes like turbo-props, small passenger jets, cargo
Well, this is a tough question. Depends on how cheap other alternatives are.
If solid state grav is cheap, you do everything with grav. It is probably
smoother, faster, and (maybe) cheaper and more capable than planes. But you
may well have 'plane analogs' (such as the jumbo atmospheric grav transport).
No wings, but transports people or cargo. Another issue is atmosphere. You
need an atmosphere (ruling out some worlds) and it must be a reasonably decent
one (not totally impossible to see through, something your engines can use if
they need to breathe although I can see fusion powered props, one that won't
eat through the plane's shell). Most settled worlds could
probably handle it although thin atmosphere/heavy grav worlds might
well be non-capable of supporting planes.
> Colony worlds have a low population, but I would expect
Well, I would very much imagine things like the Osprey Tilt-Rotor,
Harrier Jump Jets, and many other such things (and Copters!) would be popular
cheap alternatives to grav on many rim planets. And yes, there would be a
civilian network, I would imagine. Also probably WIG type planes too.
> So, after landing on planet from the orbital scramjet, is it
On a real rim world, you might get to your farmstead by small cesna type plane
or with a chopper. Note that you'd have lots of oddball
stuff too like high efficiency dirigibles (good cost/weight ratio for
cargo transport) and solar powered planes/gliders.
/************************************************
> Andrew & Alex wrote:
> So, after landing on planet from the orbital scramjet, is it
I see aircraft being, if anything, more common on colony worlds than on the
Homeworld. Mostly light aircraft to get to scattered settlements, but with
larger ones showing up too.
***
> Andrew & Alex wrote:
Colony worlds have a low population, but I would expect populations of
two or three million to be easily attainable after, say, 50-100 years of
colonisation. New Zealand has a population of 3.5 million, yet it has it's own
fleet of jets and other aircraft (Air New Zealand). So do even smaller places
like Fiji, Tonga and Cook Islands.
***
My feeling is the analogy may be a bit thin. These 'relative' small
populations may have the larger aircraft for commerce with a very large world
indeed. However, John's analysis below seems right on the mark, given the
experience in Australia, where I believe there are light aircraft on almost
every station, or the commonality of bush pilots even today in Alaska.
What would be used would depend on a number of factors beyond pop numbers;
density, terrain are two that spring to mind. How dense these colonies would
be was debated at some length a while ago.
If you think holdings/towns/ranches/stations/whathaveyou would spread
out
equidistantly, then a sub-orbital version
of your scramjet would be hopping all over the globe. If you think they'd be
clustered in one place spreading out, smaller, shorter range craft would be
more likely, with various ground transports for the shortest hops.
I see a mix of the above: several clusterings of holdings with a few central
cities, and remote sites in inhospitable, but lucrative locations. I'd think
light aircraft licensers would be doing quite well.
Once you start using ST-style transporters, though, all bets are off.
;->=
The_Beast
"John M. Atkinson" <john.m.atkinson@erols.com> on 10/19/98 11:20:56 AM
Please respond to FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
cc: (bcc: Doug Evans/CSN/UNEBR)
Subject: Re: GZGL FH - Jumbos, Jets and Turbo Props
> Andrew & Alex wrote:
> So, after landing on planet from the orbital scramjet, is it
I see aircraft being, if anything, more common on colony worlds than on the
Homeworld. Mostly light aircraft to get to scattered settlements, but with
larger ones showing up too.
John
> ***
As an Alaskan, I feel I can actually comment on this last bit. Bush pilots are
more common than ever in Alaska. A slogan used at times is "the flyingest
state in the Union." (don't shoot me, I didn't write it) The
ratio of airplanes/people in the state FAR exceeds any other place in
the US, and if I'm not mistaken, the World.. Off the top of my head I could
name at least 20 families that have their own plane. Anchorage (with a
population of ~260,000) has 3 commercial airports, including a busy
International airport, The worlds largest float-plane base, and a busy
small-plane airport (where you could land a 747 in an emergency, but I
wouldn't want to - It's in between a mall and a car dealership...) as
well
as at least a dozen shared semi-private airstrips/floatplane lakes
supporting dozens of planes each.
In fact I know several families that don't own a car - but they have a
plane, 2 snowmobiles, and 3 4-wheelers. I think there are some
similarities in the dispersed population base and low infrastructure here with
what might exist on a colony world. Half the state's population in
one place, and the others scattered all over. and FWIW - the majority
of
the planes in AK never really leave Alaska -at least not the small ones.
That's something that's left for the big boys. (who are numerically inferior,
though superior capacity wise)
> What would be used would depend on a number of factors beyond pop
I agree here. Whatever the means of propulsion, I think smaller population
colony worlds will use a large number of smaller aircraft, sometimes
surplanting ground based vehicles as primary transportation, while larger
worlds will sustain larger 'jumbo' air transports.
> I see a mix of the above: several clusterings of holdings with a few
Another Alaska analogy - Ketchikan, AK receives regular, daily flights
from an Alaska Airlines 737 (in and out twice daily), and the combination of
location and population makes it a profitable service to offer. On the
other hand, Eek, AK has a small volume of traffic - I would be surprised
if
anything larger than a 8-seat commuter prop ever gets there, and even
the probably no more that a couple of times a week. If you believe as I do
that economics will still play a part in the administering of the colonies, I
don't think there's a more reasonable way to arrange things. Of course,
when all your atmospheric craft are VTOL/Grav, you can bring in larger
units when needed (not always an option today) but you will typically
utilize craft that most closely match your needs - to use more is
resource wasting. To use less is an impediment to operations, but certainly
could
happen in a resource-strapped colony or environment.
> On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Thomas Barclay wrote:
let's hear it for the dirigible! i wouldn't call them 'oddball'; in fact, for
many applications they are going to be the mode of travel of choice. modern
technolgy (and future technology even more so) will make dirigibles
faster, and cheaper and safer than heavier-than-air machines. for
non-time-critical transport needs (eg cargo, big troop movements), they
will be the best thing around. time-critical transport (eg businessmen,
rapid-reaction troop movements) will rely on heavier-than-air machines
built with interface technology: scramjets, hotol-type regenerative
drive thingies, etc. thus, air transport will be partitioned into the very
expensive, very fast passenger rocket, and the cheap, slow airship.
this analysis is basically cribbed out of that sci-fi classic 'beware
the tektrons'. if anyone out there has read this, i will transfer to them the
pint i won in that bet a while back. for those of you who haven't, it is the
bbc micro to (eg) niven's sparcstation.
<columbo> oh, and just one more thing.
</columbo>
bear in mind that on planets with low atmospheric density (ie pressure, ie low
gravity), such as mars, the speed of sound is much lower, and to get
anywhere at speed you will need a plane capable of supersonic flight -
ie aerodynamics and structure beefed up to handle the transition. in many
cases, it will be more cost-effective to sit just below the sound
barrier:
nasa designs for aerial mars-explorers are of two types, balloons and
prop planes. if you live on a world such as this, dirigibles, probably
solar-powered, or fusion if it's cheap, will be as fast as subsonic
transport can be, and thus the most cost-effective form of transport by
far.
Tom
Hello,GZG-L,
IMMO, Colony worlds will go though states of development depend on the world.
Dead rocks with no biosphere will probably never have large population unless
there are an "gold rushes" type events, like Yukon Rush. (too expensive to
keep alive)Otherwise Low Planetary Orbit craft will serve the personnel and
light cargo needs for long range travel. Grav and a few wheel and tracks
shuttles will served short range travel. Bulk cargo like ore and fuel would
use either track or trains. Cost would be major factor in colonization of Dead
Rocks for keep needed crew alive and happy would so painfully costly.
Near Earth and Earth Planets will probably a larger population due to lower
cost of survival. At early stage,most town and outpost will have either
schedule service or "bush pilot" Remote colonists would have kit planes if
possible. Train and road system for cheap tranport will devolop as the colony
grows. At end of colonization period transportion would be similar to modern
systems.
> ---laserlight <laserlight@mci2000.com> wrote:
What
> > about other aeroplanes like turbo-props, small passenger jets, cargo
If the
> latter, then you have to assume that either a) planes don't need to be