[GZG-WCC] Human vs Kra'Vak

2 posts ยท Oct 23 2000 to Oct 25 2000

From: John Fox <jfox@v...>

Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:08:54 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: [GZG-WCC] Human vs Kra'Vak

Hello Everyone: I ran two games at the con 1) 24K HvK game 2) 6K HvK game

About the BIG one. Each side got 12K points. Unfortunetly I gave the humans
alot of fighters an d carriers (2 CVL and 3 CV, 26 squadrons total, standard
fighters). The Kra'Vak got 1 CVL and 1 CV (total 10 squadrons). The break down
was then 2 of each
capital ships for humans, roughly 6-8 of each cruiser and 8 destroyers.
The Kra'Vak had 7 destroyers, 6 Light cruisers, 4 cruisers, 5 strike cruisers
and 4

hwy cruisers, 2 BC, 2 BB, 1 BDN and 1 SBDN. The fact that the table was the
limiting factor meant that everything was roughly linup and go at it. If we
would have had a bigger area that might have

worked better (of course someone might have stepped on a ship also). The real
winners of the battle were the asteroids. They took out five Kra'Va k cruisers
due to poor navigation by the pilots. Had two asteroid crossing at roughly
center of table in oppisite directions. The humans lead off by sending all but
roughly 8 fighter squadrons down one side to get at destroyers and cruisers.
It took two turns for everyone to get close to gun range. At this time the
fighters waded in and promptly got

slaughtered. Much talk ensued about scatter guns as ADAFs and all that. They
managed to take out one ship if I remember correctly. Not many left after that

round (fighters). In the center John Leary sent his fighters against a SBDN an
d managed to do some hefty damage for human fightes (lets just say it got the
ships captain attention). A certain destroyer squadron did a great bait them
into range then bring them towwards the capital ships (Hey, my job is to just
get them here, not destroy them!) The humans lost a couple ships to fire. The
next round the caranage started. The humans lost roughly half the ships on the
board. Those K5 rail guns tend to make life horrible for anything but a

capital ship. Saw a couple cruisers and one battlecruiser dissappear from one
salvo. (4 X K4, all hit, 3 doubled, 1 normal and 3 K1, 1 double for a total of
39 points from one ship). The humans took out maybe two ships. The following
round the asteroids did their damage and then the humans tried to do some.
Again mass carnage for the humans. They managed to take out a carrier (or a
SBDN), a couple destroyers, a cruiser and that was about it. The Kra'Vak
fighters waded in on one side and took out three human ships, messed up

a forth so it was rendered to scrap by a couple well placed shot. Two human
SBDN ended up right in front of a Kra'Vak BDN, and one BB, one BC. IT was ugly
.
After five (or six turns) the game was called due to hunger pains by the
players (lunch time). The Kra'Vak ruled.

Lessons for next time. 1) If you are going to do such a large game get a BIG
playing area. 2) Humans need less fighters and more shooting ships. 3) A mix
of nationalities would have been nice (I only had NAC). Had it been NSL or
something else the results would have bee a little different. 4) Get the rules
for supporting scatter pack fire finalized.

Game mechanics. 1) Everyone gets roughly five minutes to write down orders for
ships (each person had roughly 8 ships) 2) Those without orders go straight 3)
Roll a dice to determine which segment each ship shoots in. 4) After order
written asteroid move then ships move. (That asteroid hit my ship!)

Rough time elapse was three and ahlf hours. Started rouhgly 10 ish, ended
roughly 1:30 ish.

Someone made the comment 'Gee, I thought this was going to be a BIG game!" I

told him to wait till next year.

  Game Two

Two convoys, Human and Kra'Vak go to reinforce the same planet. Both sides
enter same side but oppisite ends. Planet placed other end of board in middle
12 inches from side. The commander has to decide to defend or attack or both.

Sides (Humans, 6 transports, 2 med freighters, 2 light freighters, 2 fleet
aux, 1 hwy cruisers, 2 cr, 2 light cruisers, 5 destroyers, 3 frigates, 2 cor
roughly) (Kra'Vak, 10 freighters, 1 cr, 1 Lcr, 4 destroyers, 5 Frigates, 3
corvetts, 2 light craft).

The humans split their forces somewhat. The Kra'Vaks attacked with almost
everything. This one was more even with the Kra'Vak losing all but one cargo
ship (one hold damaged). The Humans lost all their cargo ships. The humans los
t all their fighting craft. The Kra'Vak lost the LCr, all destroyers, half the
3

frigates. The K Cruiser suffered a bridge hit for 6 turns (read off board).
The

hero for the humans was the heavy cruiser who flew through the Kra'Vak
formatio n twice and lived while taking out cargos left and right. He finally
died.

Lessons learned 1) Make time to enter orbit roughly four or five turns. Other
wise to much time to kill everything 2) Give the Humnas about a 5:4 advantage
in fighting points. 3) Cargos are slow and sitting ducks.

Plans for next year 1) 30K battle. (Geee is this big enough for you now!)
Probably three seperate battles of 10K each one three seperate tables around a
planet. 2) Another convoy run with roughly the same level again. 3) A game
with lots of asteroids and other stuff.

John W. Fox

> John Leary wrote:

From: Oerjan Ohlson <oerjan.ohlson@t...>

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:05:04 +0100

Subject: Re: [GZG-WCC] Human vs Kra'Vak

> John Fox wrote:

> Hello Everyone:

That's over a quarter of the points total used for fighters... and NAC
carriers too, with very few weapons of their own and poor protection from KV
weapon. Fleet selection seems to have played a major part in the outcome.

> The Kra'Vak got 1 CVL and 1 CV (total 10 squadrons).

No fighters aboard the SDNs and DNs? Not that another 6 squadrons
would've helped the humans much, of course :-/

> The break down was then 2 of each capital ships for humans, roughly

> The fact that the table was the limiting factor meant that

This usually favours humans over KV - humans *usually* outgun the KV in
the (F) arc, so forcing the KV to attack head-on hurts them - but not
in this case.

> The humans lead off by sending all but roughly 8 fighter squadrons

When you're fighting KV, fighters need to wait until the KV formations start
breaking up due to casualties or maneuvers. One of the differences from
fighting FB1 designs, yes.

[snip]

> The humans lost a couple ships to fire.

I'm a bit confused here - first you say that the fighters attacked when
the fleets reached "close gun range", but from the damage inflicted it seems
that very effective little ship-to-ship shooting occurred until the
*next* turn?

> The humans lost roughly half the ships on the board.

Which means one of:
- The KV concentrated their fire on the NAC light units
- The KV managed to get virtually all their ships within 6mu of their
targets (so they could use their scatterguns in anti-ship mode)
- The KV didn't get that close but rolled *extremely* hot for their
K-guns, beating Aaron's average by a few miles...

If none of the above, the KV force you described above doesn't have
enough firepower to kill that much of the NAC force :-/

> Those K5 rail guns tend to make life horrible for anything but a

Hm. A couple of oddities here:

* You write 4xK4, the damage total and numbers of hits and doubles say 4xK5,
and none of the FB2 KV designs carries either of those weapon combinations. If
you used custom ship designs, what where they?

* Even if the cruisers were Hurons, two of them plus a Majestic means
at least 65 points of K-gun damage to destroy all three ships. The
human ships must have taken at least some 20-30 points of damage before
that KV capital fired, or else the KV ship rolled very high for its
scatterguns.

I suspect that you saw a Yu'Kas SDN firing, in which case it was K6s and the
targets took 46 pts rather than 39. Still not enough to kill
three undamaged cruisers/battlecruisers though, and using up twice as
much Mass as the entire armament of a Valley Forge SDN :-/

> The humans took out maybe two ships.

Concentrated their fire on the KV capitals instead of on the cruisers and
destroyers, lost all FCSs before they got to fire, or something?
Otherwise this seems extremely low - even light beams can hurt Kra'Vak
rather badly, and the NAC had a fair amount of those.

> Lessons for next time.

Yes. Throwing fighters at an undamaged KV formation is similar to
pouring water on a goose :-/

> 3) A mix of nationalities would have been nice (I only had NAC).

> different.

Any human fleet with less fighters, including NAC (their CL and CH in
particular are good anti-KV units if they can use their
maneuverability), would've been different. It is quite unusual for a KV
fleet to outgun an equal- or higher-points human fleet in a head-on
pass, but that seems to have been the case here.

> 4) Get the rules for supporting scatter pack fire finalized.

<shrug> IMO they're only overpowering when unexperienced opponents play
straight into their hands. Again that's what seems to have happened here.

> Game mechanics.

*Before* asteroids move?

> 3) Roll a dice to determine which segment each ship shoots in.

Still adhering to the "sides alternate firing one ship at a time", I hope?

> 4) After order written asteroid move then ships move. (That

Pretty good, considering that at least some players were unfamiliar with the
rules.

> Game Two

About 1750-1800 pts warships and 2800 pts of freighters.

> (Kra'Vak, 10 freighters, 1 cr, 1 Lcr, 4 destroyers, 5

Assuming FB2 designs, this is almost 2000 pts of KV warships. Below you say 3
frigates, which would make both warfleets around 1750 pts... which was it?

> The humans split their forces somewhat.

Was that "left the freighters behind to intercept the KV", or "split up an
already outmatched force"..? (depends on how may frigates the KV had, though)

> The Kra'Vaks attacked with almost everything. This one was more >even

Here's where you say 3 frigates :-/

Sounds like a mutual slaughter, with the KV having the corvettes and
1-2  frigates left in addition to their single damaged freighter and
crippled cruiser

> Lessons learned

At least don't give the *Kra'Vak* a 200-points advantage...

> 3) Cargos are slow and sitting ducks.

Yep. They even have problems outrunning NSL capitals :-7