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,
My thought for doing a new line of walkers (legged armoured vehicles in 15mm)
might be something like this:
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/features/hardware/bf2142/bf214
2_screen002.jpg
or some of these
http://www.eurogamer.net/gallery.php?game_id=5710&article_id=68937
http://www.eurogamer.net/view_screenshot.php?filter=PC&image=assets/arti
cles/a/6/3/5/2/9/BF2142pcSCRN_EU_combinedarmsscene_bmp_jpgcopy.jpg
Notice the articulated ankles, knees and hips that go in opposing directions.
I think most of these walkers can duck behind cover, especially
in urban mid-rise areas. Hills would work too. And they are turreted on
top
of that, so the legs can face one way and the tank-turret can rotate.
These seem some of the most practical (assume we accept any walkers are)
designs I've seen.
Of course, there is the classic designs I've enjoyed:
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/mecha/rc_prevalk.html
I'm not so fond of the big round...cylinders... off the shoulders, but the
rest of the figure matches what I use (old 28mm HG) for 'class 1 infantry
walkers). Something like super-heavy PA - practically immune to small
arms in a way normal GZG PA are not and capable of carrying vehicles to
threaten light armour and soft skinned vehicles (or something heavier, if a
full AT model is considered)
Note the Hercules a bit further down that page. And interesting insect
legged Stug-like tank destroyer with either some artillery rockets or
overhead attack GMS launchers.
Also, another sentimental favourite... I *was going* to link some images to.
But I can't find any. The old Grendel Raptor and Nemesis walkers - about
a foot high, vaguely (but not really) AT AT shaped, but with less ridiculous
legs and feet. The Raptor I think had one RFAC and 2 sensor pods and the other
had 3 RFACs. Great for infantry support in urban or rought terrain that might
be impassible to tracks, wheels or hover. Even Scotia Grendel doesn't seem to
have images posted, which is silly in this day and
age....
http://www.scotiagrendel.com/grendel_sc_fi_1.html
There's some ideas anyway.
I admit I like your new UAV/VTOL, but I'm still in favour of
(aesthetically) some more aerodynamic birds, maybe a bit like these:
http://www.oldcrowmodels.co.uk/15vtol.htm
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Not to start too huge a thing on walkers, as I know they are not most peoples'
thing, but I think their ar ample figures out there for big, burley walkers.
What has not been done are the walkers that fall between the powered armor and
the heavier stuff. These are the walkers I am talking about when I refer to
bipedal walkers. Perhaps I should refer to them as humanoid, but then folks
figure you are talking about big
anime-looking things.
The ones I am proposing are far less fancy and I must admit a certain
preference for the machines thath ave made an appearance in
2300AD/Traveller 2300. In a lot of ways the basic elments of the
MaK/SF3D stuff work if you were to work away from some of their blatent
retro-tech elements.
Check out these links for examples of the Traveller sorts -
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dheb/2300/Equipment/EG/bowman/BritCW.h
tm
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dheb/2300/Equipment/EG/BH25/BH25.htm
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dheb/2300/Articles/CW/CW.htm
http://www.tedlindsey.com/art/art/2320ad_files/page9-1012-full.html
The key thing to remember here is the scale. In most of these units, the pilot
is fully enclosed in the torso, either sitting or squatting and operating the
vehicle very similar to any other vehicle, making most of these combat walkers
at least twice the height of a man if not pushing
three-times the height. The "head" on the is often nothing more than a
sensor suite and the weapons are often mounted either on the main body or the
backside of the arms. There aren't any "carried" weapons on these sorts of
designs, though nothing prevents them from carrying weapons.
-Eli
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aking of the Heavy Gear universe, I remember the Heavy Gear CGI cartoon.
There was an episode where there was a match with 3 rounds - the first
2 rounds were worth 25 points each - the villians won both rounds -
things look hopeless.
Then we find out that the final round is worth FIFTY-FIVE [55] POINTS!!
Making the first 2 rounds POINTLESS!! DO THE MATH!! The heroes won the final
round & the match, but JESUS!!...
JBrewer@webtv.net
"Always strive to be a good person. If you can't do that, at least strive to
be someone other than an asshole."
[quoted original message omitted]
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,
I'll beg to differ with you. I don't know of anyone making 15mm or 25mm
walkers (class 3-5 vehicles) that look anything like those in BF2142.
Those walkers can lie in their bellies and still fight with legs fully folded
in. Those walkers also have turrets like tanks, not weak looking places for
people to put a round through a B-29 canopy (thinking of an armourcast
28mm walker I once saw).
I think there would be a niche to build such a 'rational' heavy walker,
although I guess there could be arguments for quadrupedal. Octipedal or
hexipedal seems a bit complex to me (both to model and in terms of the
mechanics) but is probably a bit more resilient from combat damage (three legs
or five legs can work). I still like the BF2142 look and I have yet to see
anyone make a miniature like that in 28mm, 25mm or 15mm.
As to your 'class 1 infantry walker', that's what I use the old HG stuff for
in 25mm. It stands about 1.5-2" tall, which is perfect for a big
infantry walker with a fully enclosed pilot. It has the sorts of weapons that
work vs. light vehicles and infantry. It's exactly what you'd want in support
of
your infantry in harsh terrain (except for the ground pressure issue -
solid ground req'd).
In 6mm, Jon has done these. He has Infantry Walkers in 6mm (Bulldog and
others?) which look like close support platforms, fully enclosed and armoured.
It is fair to say I haven't seen these bleed back up into 15mm or 25mm yet.
For 15mm, you could almost use existing 25mm PA. Assume that the pilot sits
inside the torso. One would think that would give you the
equivalent of a 3.2-3.5m high infantry walker (about 10-11') in just
about the right size for your purposes. ESU or NSL would look pretty good for
that.
I think the AD2300 artists did a bad job on the manipulator appendages and the
boxy shapes of the limbs. I like most 2300 style art, but I'm not fond of
these looks. The idea, yes. I'm not talking about elfin manga escapees
either. Just a little more rugged and less early-model looking.
Only one request: No more Michelin warriors (KV PA) and no more hard boiled
eggs (OUDF
PA).
Now, if Eli hasn't scanned the OUDF 25mm PA, he should - they remind me
a
lot of the AD2300 style - very basic. Might just suit his purposes.
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I think you may have misunderstood -
"I'll beg to differ with you. I don't know of anyone making 15mm or 25mm
walkers (class 3-5 vehicles) that look anything like those in BF2142. "
Not being intimately familiar with the machine in question and limited only to
what was in the pics, I can say that I have seen many models past and present
that have the basic building blocks of that design. If you are looking for
retrodigit legs, a blocky chasis and big guns there are a few options. Some
older lines of minis have such walkers and many of the Mechwarrior figs from
the Clix line fit the bill for 15mm. Not the same as having a shiny purpose
build one, to be sure.
"I think there would be a niche to build such a 'rational' heavy walker"
Agreed. Though the GZG designs are neat, I have always thought that the legs
on the walkers are a bit fragile looking. I suppose no more so than a tire or
wheel but that does religate them to IFVs and Scouts and not MBTs.
"As to your 'class 1 infantry walker', that's what I use the old HG stuff for
in 25mm."
Much like your concerns for your favorite walker, these don't work for me
based on their style. I am looking for somethign a bit bigger with the pilot
in the torso only.
I have considered using the ESU 25mm PAs for this very thing and may still.
They do resemble some of the new interpretation of the Traveller Combat
Walkers.
"I think the AD2300 artists did a bad job on the manipulator appendages and
the boxy shapes of the limbs. I like most 2300 style art, but I'm not fond of
these looks. The idea, yes. I'm not talking about elfin
manga escapees either. Just a little more rugged and less early-model
looking."
I wouldn't mind seeing some other designs too. The AD2300 stuff has a soft
spot and I do find a certain charm in the "imperfect" combat walkers. I have
seen and considered the OUDF PA thoughit looks a bit cramped for a 15mm in the
chest. I do agree that the Kra'Vak PA could use a redesign.
-Eli
I'm not a walker/mecha fan at all but I confess to a soft spot for
Votoms:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Votoms04.jpg
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:08:13PM -0500, Tom B wrote:
> I think there would be a niche to build such a 'rational' heavy walker,
It's also easier to "hunker down" with an insectile or arachnoid
leg-plan, i.e. where the legs are basically starting off out to the side
of the body rather than being below it. (In a setting where I was
building near-current-tech walkers, they were essentially tanks with a
profoundly rearranged drivetrain and consequent changes to internal
structure, meant for fighting in urban and recently-urban terrain.) I'm
not claiming this is the best possible system, just that it's one that could
as potentially work as any of the other walker designs, and looks good.
> I still like the BF2142 look and I have yet to
I concur.
R
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> n Brewer wrote:
> the first 2 rounds were worth 25 points each - the villians won both
Was there any side betting? That sounds like a set-up for a lot of
gambling: "We'll have 3 rounds, but we'll make it so someone who loses the
first two can still win; there'll be enough idiots out there who'll try and
recoup their losses by backing the loser a third time..."
It kinda reminds me of the climax of one of the Xanth books, in which the hero
invents a game to demonstrate a strategy which allows a player
who co-operates to defeat one who tries to beat his opponent and win by
himself. Again, the numbers are stacked for the purposes of the "lesson",
Phil
> Jon,
uk/15vtol.htm
> Tom
Hmmm, some very inspirational stuff here, Tom! :-)
Watch this space..... ;-)
Jon (GZG)
> --
> Speaking of the Heavy Gear universe, I remember the Heavy
Personally, I would not put both things together (the Heavy Gear Universe
along with the TV Series). The series have some of the looks, but other than
that... it was not even a simplified version, it simply
had nothing to do with the RPG/tac game, or even logic (¿Gears that
were upgraded by covering them in ooze?). I was expecting something like the
Starship Troopers animated series (which I loved), with a good story behind
it, but it was not even close. I always thought that the background was the
best part of Heavy Gear, and it was not used at all.
But well...
Back to the point, I have been wanting to buy some walker vehicles for a
while... but Jon keeps making wheeled ones that look so well that I keep
pushing back their buying date more and more!
Regards,
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interest is in the infantry walkers, which I use as super-heavy power
armor in Dirtside. I currently use Battletech power armor in 6mm, which
comes out to about 4-5 meters. I'm looking for a 15mm equivalent; thanks
to the suggestions, I'll take a very close look at heavy gear 25mm.
The utility walkers (heavily converted GW epic sentinels) look like armored
boxes on chicken legs, designed to be cheap, light-weight and mobile.
The
combat versions look like double-size power armor (which of course is
what they are). Either way, their armor is only supposed to stop
anti-personnel
weapons. Against heavy weapons they use terrain, mobility and small size.
Such designs should do well in a variety of rough terrain situations, even
uninhabitable planets. In combat, I use them for orbital drops to support
power armor infantry and clear a landing zone. I suspect that twelve foot
humanoid vehicles would also be very useful in urban combat, having a mobility
advantage over conventional jeeps, tanks and APCs. They're also useful for
utility work, even aboard ship, so I have a few converted utility walkers
designed for EVA and ground engineering work. They're a specialized but very
important unit.
I'm not a fan of the "giant tank on legs" concept, but of course many don't
like infantry walkers, either. I agree completely that the BF2142 look has a
very high "cool factor" and looks like something designed to be actually used
by someone, though the legs look a bit heavy.
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 3:57 AM, Roger Burton West <roger@firedrake.org>wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:08:13PM -0500, Tom B wrote:
I'm
> not claiming this is the best possible system, just that it's one that
> My interest is in the infantry walkers, which I use as
The standard general purpose Heavy Gear minis are about 4 cm tall (a
"real" HG is around 6 meters tall, so a bit over 40 mm in N-Scale). So
in 15mm scale they fit pretty well the concept of heavy power armor or light
walker vehicle. In 25mm scale they should work well as standard power armor
(they are a bit bigger than a GW Space Marine).
The first Heavy Gear minis were HO scale (1/87), but they are quite rare
to find nowadays (although not impossible). The ones I have are the
second batch, which were N Scale (1/144 or 1/160, depending on where you
look, or about 10-12mm), and the current Heavy Gear Blitz minis are, as
far as I know, basically the same scale although the guns look bigger (a bit
more cartoonish).
Hope this helps to make you decide wether the minis could fit your ideas.
Regards,
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t helps a lot, actually. Thanks!
Rob
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 8:57 AM, David Lalinde <papecomp@yahoo.es> wrote:
> The standard general purpose Heavy Gear minis are about 4 cm tall (a
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 8:57 AM, David Lalinde <papecomp@yahoo.es> wrote:
> My interest is in the infantry walkers, which I use as
Yes, I was getting back into mini gaming when the first HG HO minis were
coming out. I bought a ton of them. The quality was simply terrible. I have
put together bunches of minis and these sunk below most of them in terms of
details, fit, and finish. However, they were
highly customizable with multitude of legs and weapons - but simply
putting a stock mini together required hours of drilling, filing, and pinning.
When they switched scales I got sunk, since there were no new HO scale
vehicles coming. That pretty much broke up the group I played with as some
moved to the new N scale and some of us just moved on to other games. I was
one of the ones that shelved the kit and moved on.
Interestingly enough, that is how I first got into Full Thrust and eventually
Stargrunt.
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Phillip Atcliffe <atcliffe@ntlworld.com> wrote:
That lesson wasn't even something that he came up with himself. It was a
Continuous Iterative Prisoners Dilemma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma
"My precious sense of honor Just a shield of rusty wire, I stand against the
chaos
and the cross of holy fire' - N. Peart