Anyone got a major emotionial investment in the SK? The Islamic Fed is a bit
too far away from New Israel to be a threat, and it's going to be awkward to
move the IF. However, AFAIK no one has done anything with the Khalifate, so it
should be okay for us to put them close by New Israel. And that would put the
SK far enough away from the IF to be safe from them, and possibly close enough
to the ESU to be a nuisance. Objections?
Chris wrote on 04/17/2006 10:31:40 AM:
> Anyone got a major emotionial investment in the SK? The Islamic Fed
No investment or objections to the above, but a very small one to some of
other associate posts, perhaps represented by a throw-off comment the
near great Winchell made:
> No, the dashed lines (with one exception) indicate
Just wanted to point out that, rare as it happens, there ARE such things as
friendly borders. I'd find it interesting in any campaign I'd generate, and
would like to keep the possibility free from canon, the possibility that the
NI and IF could be the rare case of someone learning from the past, and
actually be non-combative.
Sorry, I always said I was the token liberal, if not Pollyanna, of the list.
BTW, how many in the US are clueless-without-Google on Pollyanna? I was
recently surprised how much it was no longer a cultural icon. Please, only
those who DON'T know...
The_Beast
> Just wanted to point out that, rare as it happens, there ARE such
If we did as I suggested with the SK, then NI and IF might be neutral. I don't
recall any mention in canon of NI and IF mixing it up directly, although I
wouldn't want to have NI and IF mercenaries working together.
Check out John Atkinson's site (which I think has moved) as he and I had done
some work on the SK, mostly force structures and troop composition but John
may have added more to it.
Tony Wilkinson.
Quoting laserlight@verizon.net:
> Anyone got a major emotionial investment in the SK? The Islamic Fed
> Check out John Atkinson's site (which I think has moved) as he and I
John's site has moved to, um, well, my site, actually.
_______________________________________________
Gzg-l mailing list
Gzg-l@lists.csua.berkeley.edu
http://lists.csua.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lOn 4/19/06,
> laserlight@verizon.net <laserlight@verizon.net> wrote:
If we're going with the "IF are on the far side of Known Space, and have a
fairly live-and-let-live attitude toward NI and the rest of the powers"
GZGverse, how about this for a bit of a backstory:
The IF underwent a massive internal revolt/Reformation/whatever sometime
in the 2100s[1]; the SK is the old hardcore mullahs with
'death-to-everyone'
attitudes who got chucked out, while the actual IF is relatively more liberal
(for some value of "liberal") and has a much finer grasp of realpolitik WRT
the other powers.
Translated into basest possible terms: this IF would still have raving
nutters, but they don't run the *entire* show, and the SK has a much higher
percentage of raving nutters...(the IF's real raving nutters would tend to
defect to the SK, anyway) It also lets the IF be something other than "Taliban
in Space", which is frankly more interesting...
Thoughts?
> If we're going with the "IF are on the far side of Known Space, and
> nutters, but they don't run the *entire* show, and the SK has a much
It also lets the IF be something other than "Taliban in Space", which is
frankly more interesting...
That's more or less what I had in mind. Canon says the IF had a revolution.
I've assumed that Phase I was the True Believers kicking out the Corrupt
Royalists; Phase II was apragmatic general becoming the "Protector of the
Khalif" in the same way the Shogun controlled the Japanese Emperor. The result
was that the Khalif became a revered religious figure with almost no power,
while the secular Sultan runs the show.
Religion is still a major component (it's the *Islamic* Federation, after all)
but not rabidly so for the vast majority. Those who are nutters don't move to
the SK (who are heretics); they join ghazi ("those who fight for
glory", which I'd translate to Volunteer Brigades) or fedayeen ("adventurers",
which I'm calling Special Forces) units. I don't recall that the IF is openly
at war with anyone in canon but has run covert assassination ops against ESU
and NAC.
_______________________________________________
Gzg-l mailing list
Gzg-l@lists.csua.berkeley.edu
http://lists.csua.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lAH that's where it
went. Ok so he has not got some stuff back up yet because we had a pretty
complete TOE for their army (John's fond of TOE's). Sorry it wasn't more use
to you.
Tony.
> laserlight@verizon.net wrote:
> Check out John Atkinson's site (which I think has moved) as he and I
http://mysite.verizon.net/laserlight//nre/index.htm :
> "Saeed Kalifate (pending) --The bastard stepchildren of the
_______________________________________________
Gzg-l mailing list
Gzg-l@lists.csua.berkeley.edu
http://lists.csua.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lGday Brian,
Actually I always had it in my mind that things were the other way around.
That the SK got chucked out for not following the nutters. I guess I had in
mind something more in Khalificate of Saladin, learned, tolerant (excepting
Crusading nutters) and just keeping the lid on it's own ratbags.
Tony.
> Brian Burger wrote:
> If we're going with the "IF are on the far side of Known Space, and
> powers" GZGverse, how about this for a bit of a backstory:
> is relatively more liberal (for some value of "liberal") and has a
> nutters, but they don't run the *entire* show, and the SK has a much
> "The 2100s" seems vague enough to qualify for now...
> From: Tony Wilkinson
If you've got a copy, send it to me and I'll post it on the site
> Sorry it wasn't more use to you.
Actually what I was looking for was "does anyone care where the SK's planets
are located?" No one has complained about the SK being located near New
Israel, so I think that's where we'll ask Nyrath to put them.
> From: Tony Wilkinson <twilko@ozemail.com.au>
> Actually I always had it in my mind that things were the other way
One crux of the question, as far as maps and conflicts are concerned is which
islamic power (IF or SK), if any, is in primary conflict with NI? If one or
the other is, that one probably needs to be
"close" to NI - not more than a couple 3 parsec links, or one long
link from New Jortan and or Tzfat at least. OR, the Jewish/Islamic
conflict of the last century *could* be claimed in Future History to have
mostly healed and given birth to something else, in which case, none of the
Islamic powers need be near NI, and they can spend their time harassing, and
being harassed by the ESU and the Swiss (the most
proximate powers to NI on the non-canon map).
-N
---
âAlways carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and
furthermore always carry a small snake.â - W. C. Fields
The relevant sections of the canon timeline are:
2127 Operation Jericho, during which New Israeli Interface and Airborne units
assaulted and destroyed several Islamic bases on the Inner Colonies
2128 The Islamic Federation and PAU clash over spheres of influence in space
2130 Shi'ite fundamentalists declare independence from the Islamic Federation
on their Outworld settlements of Abu Haman and Sad Al Bari. Saudi attempts to
regain control of these colonies fail as troops of the 2nd Islamic Legion sent
to suppress the rebellion switch sides after landfall and join the
fundamentalists under the banner of Mullah Saeed ibn Aamir. The two colonies
declare the formation of the Saeed Khalifate.
2131 Israeli and Islamic mercenaries clash with each on Easter despite both
having been hired by the Indonesians
2163 Islamic fundamentalists seize power in New Riyadh. The Islamic Federation
becomes increasingly hostile towards both the NAC and the ESU.
2173 ESU and NAC peace negotiators are assassinated by an Islamic Federation
terrorist attack
On Apr 20, 2006, at 3:15 PM, gzg-l-request@lists.csua.berkeley.edu
wrote:
> 2127 Operation Jericho, during which New Israeli Interface and
This does state that IF had colonies and bases in the inner colonies.
In "my" NI timeline, I have the IF destroying an NI colony in 2126 -
presumably the event that kicks off Jericho. Perhaps it can be assumed that
Inner colony bases launched the IF attack, and that Jericho weakened or
destroyed the IF presence in the Inner colonies. The hard part there is that
even the Inner Colonies are not close to the IF in the (4B) link map.
Otherwise...I am really beginning to think there is no need to preserve
animosity between NI and IF (outside of the "anyone can find a reason to fight
anyone" philosophy of FT scenario generaion). Perhaps after Jericho, the IF
basically abandoned the inner colonies and the NI and IF have little to do
with each other for over 50 years. IF has its internal revolutions, and
becomes a more secular state, NI goes its own way, clashing more often with
ESU (and maybe NAC), while keeping ties with the core and ascending UNSC
(though I
wonder what the 5-link map would show for NI connections?). This
alternative would mean that a) "New Jordan" does not exist as I have conceived
it (an NI ally split from IF, and located adjacent to NI space), b) Tzfat (a
destroyed colony in my timeline) has probably
been re-colonized.
NI and IF forces start seeing more of each other only as the Xeno War
escalates. First encounters are tense, but eventually, NI and IF will fight
along side each other in the defense of the Core worlds.
As for the SK, being former IF colony worlds, they belong adjacent to IF
space. And since there are no real connections between IF and NI space (in map
4B, at least), the SK is pretty uninvolved with NI as well.
This whole scenario would cause a fairly big rewrite of my NI timeline, but
that would be fine if it sounds acceptable.
---
"I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with the
best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that won't
last out the year."
-- The editor in charge of business books for Prentice
Hall, 1957