Hi,
I am new on the list, and new to the GZG games in general. I consider running
a smaller Full Thrust event at a local con and have some questions. If such
matters are beyond the scope of the mailing list I apologize.
I came across Full Thrust by chance while looking at games at BGG. I have been
playing a bit at home, had a great time and want to show the game to the local
gaming community.
I have a six hour slot at the con, no need to fill the entire slot with a
single major battle though, if we can play multiple games that is fine too.
The scenario "The attack on convoy 990" in the Full Thrust rule book looks
like it could be a suitable scenario. There is a clear end point, and no risk
of the game just drawing on and ending in a stale mate. And I can scale it up
or down easily depending on interest, I plan on splitting the ships between
interested players so that everyone gets to be captain on two or three ships
each. I'll stay away from fighters, since I'll have to play with proxies, and
have no suitable ones for fighters, also they seem to make the game twice as
difficult to learn/teach.
And these are my questions:
What version of the rules is the proper one? I have downloaded pretty much
everything from the GZG site and googled a bit but I can't figure out which
rules to play by. I like the cinematic movement system and
the six-arc fields of fire. But it would be nice to play with the
"recommended" rules.
Does anyone have any suggestions or opinions on my chosen scenario and setup?
Best regards
Welcome!
> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Wilper <wilper@gmail.com> wrote:
> What version of the rules is the proper one?
The "proper" rules, that is the rules most people follow, are those in the
Fleet Books. They are in addition to, and in some places a replacement of, the
rules in the main rulebook. The best option is to read through the FT rule
book (which it looks like you've done), play a game or two of that (which it
looks like you've done), then read the FB (Fleet Book) rules and adapt the
system to those.
I think somewhere on the web is a cheat sheet for th FB rules.
As for vector versus cinematic, the choice is personal preference, though
cinematic seems to be a little easier for people to pick up. (I say "seems" as
there are groups where that isn't the case.)
> Does anyone have any suggestions or opinions on my chosen scenario and
I haven't played it, so I'll let others make suggestions.
The introductory games I've seen at conventions are pretty simple. Just give
everyone a small fleet based around the same points and let them go after each
other. Line one half of the participants on one half of the table, the others
on the other half of the table. When a ship is destroyed, let the player bring
in a replacement as a reinforcement a turn later, so no one is eliminated. If
you want to declare a "winner" have the players keep track of the point values
of the ships they destroyed.
You end up with a game where everyone dives in blazing away, where losing your
fleet keeps you in the game. You can mix and match factions so that the
players get a feel for different weapon systems and ship designs. It's a
really good way to introduce the game. Later, once players know what they are
doing, you can introduce scenarios.
Just to be contrary, which Allan is pretty much used to in me, I see far more
original FTII rules being used at most small cons. However, I'd recommend the
first Fleet book as you've described liking the six fire arcs.
By 'show the local gaming community', I assume this will be introductory to
most of the folk. Very sensible to keep it simple without fighters. However,
if you're filling the whole slot with multiple games, you might consider the
first part being simple meeting battles. They are the simplest, but are TOO
boring repeatedly for some folk. Following up with a more nuanced scenario
keeps folk realizing possibilities, something that happens all too seldom
here.
By the by, if you try going with Hugh Fisher's new rewrite, please DO let us
know how it goes!
The_Beast
Doug Evans wrote on 05/02/2009 10:05:09 PM:
Me ***snippage***
> Following up with a
Crikies! I meant 'here' as in my local gaming community; I love the situations
and scenarios I've gotten here on the list and associated websites, though
it's been awhile... *hint*
The_Beast
> Wilper wrote:
The Game masters at the GZG East Coast Convention have run a number of
introductory Full Thrust scenarios over the years in order to introduce the
game in new comers.
Estrell Naval Academy Cruiser Duel
(Free for all 2-12 players)
Estrell Training - Convoy Attack
(2-6 players - Players play the game twice once as attackers and once as
defenders) (May require salvo missiles and a single attacking fighter group)
Bad Blood (2-6 players - Uses salvo missiles)
Battle for Cormorant Moon (2-12 player team game) (King of the hill)
Plus others...
I have scenario writeups and electronic SSD sheets for these.
Jon Davis wrote on 05/03/2009 08:37:34 AM:
> Wilper wrote:
Didn't you used to host these, perhaps in pre-FB versions, on your Road
Runner page? Do you have a new web home?
Otherwise, I'd be interested in a copy as well, and perhaps the sheets you did
for Gothic Thrust(?) sent to rlaybeast, at the domain of yahoo. You know, the
dot com.
Thanks!
As an aside, did anyone try my admittedly incomplete idea for a drop-in
game of an intrasystem border conflict? Or, did I just dream of mentioning it
here?
The_Beast
> On Sat, 2 May 2009, Allan Goodall wrote:
> Welcome!
Hugh has both the Cross Dimensions and the Remixed here:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~laranzu/fullthrust/rules/
Save yourself a headache and start there. There's so much old and
confusing information left in the originals, it's less pain to learn from the
clean rules.
> I think somewhere on the web is a cheat sheet for th FB rules.
http://groundzerogames.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110
&Itemid=50
> As for vector versus cinematic, the choice is personal preference,
I always start new players on cinematic. They get the *whoosh* much easier.
> Does anyone have any suggestions or opinions on my chosen scenario
For my introductory games here in Denver, I go with the suggested fleet bash.
Split up the players, give 'em ships and fight! I keep it simple with little
more than beams and grazers. No missles or fighters. Works fairly well.
I've friends who go out of their way to get into the games Jon Davis noted.
They're consistently balanced and thoroughly playtested. Go with any of them
and after playing them out once yourself, you should have a good feel for the
expected action.
My first con games for FT were run using Full Thrust 2nd ed. and giving each
player about 6 frigates or destroyers, maybe even light cruisers. No fighters,
no repairs. Cinematic movement, no floating table.
Basic prep included: a supply of pencils, a supply of pre-made ship
sheets, turn and fire arc gauges, a fistful of dice
(My most aggressive FT con game was about 6000 pts a side, NAC vs. SV, for
experienced players only. It was too big, really. Great spectacle, limited
play value.)
_______________________________________________
Gzg-l mailing list
Gzg-l@lists.csua.berkeley.edu
http://lists.csua.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lJust to put in a
vote against Mike's comments on teaching cinematic first:
I've been playing FT on and off since 1995 time frame. I've played both
movement systems. I cannot fly in cinematic to save my life. Especially at
movement rates faster than 6 and some of the nuts out there - not
thinking
of any anti-tank weapon designers - like to fly around at speeds of 40+
in cinematic. I find I inevitably end up somewhere I didn't expect.
On the other hand, in vector, I can almost always eyeball where my fancy moves
will end me up, where the enemy will end up, where my 3" Salvo missiles should
go for best effect, etc. and have a high degree of success in my manouvers.
This was even true in FT Java where I could routinely end up out of arc or in
bad arcs for the enemy.
I find vector intuitive, I find cinematic requires a good ability to eyeball
where the mid movement turn is going to happen and exactly how sharp it is
(30 or 60 degrees). If you are moving fast and mis-estimate where the
bend is to occur or where the angle means you will end up, you can miss your
projected endpoint by up to a foot or more (I've done it).
One small note: We do not allow pre-measuring of ranges or movements.
For me, vector is obvious, the speeds tend to be lower and you have 'drift
endpoint' markers which tell you where your current turn's manouver envelope
begins and the manouvers are limited. So the end, the range of possible
outcome locations is more finite and easier to eyeball. For all that, I love
writing unexpected movements and dodging enemy template ordinance.
So, not everyone finds cinematic easier. But I concede most people do. Try
them both out.