Greetings:
"There's an excellent scene in Blackhawk Down which shows what happens when
snipers get involved
in close-range fighting with masses of folks."
I'd call that an exception to the rule. They were trying to buy time for a
close colleague (a helicopter pilot). They were the only assets around. They
knew it was a possible suicide mission. I wouldn't call what they did a SOP.
<http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohsom.htm>
In a story full of very moving stories, one of the most moving stories in that
tale.
Fred Kiesche (FPK3) I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the
hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters. (Frank Lloyd Wright) Over 8,000
postings served! See The Eternal Golden Braid
(http://theeternalgoldenbraid.blogspot.com/ ).
JohnA said
> "There's an excellent scene in Blackhawk Down which shows what happens
Fred said:
> I'd call that an exception to the rule.<snip>
John was commenting on a post in which snipers and anti-armor weapons
WERE shown as SOP in close assault. Although I suspect Beth's orginal post was
intended as "the close assault teams should consist of A B and C and be
*supported* by snipers". The snipers should be back away from
the action, not up with the door-kickers.
> On 1/25/07, Fred Kiesche <godel2escher2bach@yahoo.com> wrote:
I've only seen the last half hour of the film, and I wasn't too impressed. I
did read the book (while it was being posted in serial format at the
Philadelphia Inquirer web site). This past weekend there was a documentary
about the incident. Although the documentary recreation didn't look like it
had enough Somalians (sp?) in it, it did a good job of showing what happened
to these two men. It was tear jerking, as it included an interview with the
pilot.
The pilot deserves some credit. He was taken by the crowd, who stripped the
bodies of the snipers and other crash victims. They came close to killing the
pilot, but a representative of the warlord (Aidid?) recognized the pilot as a
valuable bargaining chip. They took him away. Later, they tried to get him to
admit that the U.S. presence in Somalia was a mistake. He would not do that.
He said what he needed to stay alive, but he would not denigrate the U.S.
mission. At one point on a videotape he was asked what he thought of civilians
being killed by U.S. forces, in an obvious attempt to get the pilot to
denounce the U.S. mission and to admit that it was U.S. policy to kill
civilians. He replied by saying that if civilians were being killed, that was
not good. He answered them truthfully and honestly, but without giving them
anything they could use in propaganda.
He had a bible with him. His captors thought he was doing a lot of praying,
but in fact he was keeping notes of his captivity in the margins of his bible.
When he was finally released, they of course let him take his bible with
him...
In spite of the ever-present possibility of immediate death, he kept
his wits about him while managing to appear to cooperate without really
cooperating.
> On 1/25/07, Fred Kiesche <godel2escher2bach@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm very aware of that. The Delta guys were very aware of that.
It doesn't change the fact that a bolt-action rifle with a sniper
scope on it is probably one of the worst weapons to take into a close range
fight. Needs must when the devil drives, but it's not something you do as a
routine.
I thought at least one of them had an M-21, or am I confusing things
with what I saw in the movie?
> On 1/25/07, John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> It doesn't change the fact that a bolt-action rifle with a sniper