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In a message dated 7/17/2006 7:10:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> fugugaipan@spikyfishthing.com writes:
Now in a game of 1500 points, you can take 5 of those, so 75 missiles total,
requiring 150 PDS to stop, causing 525 points of damage.
Jaime
Granted that your plotting them all to hit the same target and they actually
do.. With 1500 points, I am sure there is a DD or FF there that people use to
soak up suck salvo missile bombardment..
Vince
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The more Thrust missile, are listed in FB1, as Missile (MT type). But
they have been "upgraded" and are currently in BETA test for next FT book (due
when???)
http://mysite.verizon.net/laserlight/ft/if.htm
I just completed a FT game, where I had a Lt Cruiser with 5, and was able to
hit with 2 out of five. So I have to feel they are useful. But they
were also used with 2 Heavy Attack fighters.
As for PDF, it doesn't work on Subpacks...
DOCAGREN
Just a Lurker here on the Digest, But maybe I have a good idea or 2..
:-)
As with all things, MT Missiles are something that requires moderation. If you
use 1 or 2 you might was well just aim them off the table. If you take them in
hoards they'll wipe out a fleet if the oposing fleet isn't design to take them
out.
Consider a simple purpose built Cruiser. Cost: 270 TMF: 80 MD: 4 Hull: 24 FC:
1 MT Missiles: 15
15 Missiles require 30 PDS to take out. Each missile (if a standard unit)
causes on average 7 points of damage. That's 105 for the salvo.
Now in a game of 1500 points, you can take 5 of those, so 75 missiles total,
requiring 150 PDS to stop, causing 525 points of damage.
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In a message dated 7/17/2006 7:46:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> fugugaipan@spikyfishthing.com writes:
> Granted that your plotting them all to hit the same target and they
Spread them out. If you go whole hog into MT missiles you should be able to
whipe out just about all of the opposing fleet. Keep a couple of non ammo
dependant ships around to mop up, or just spread the beam batteries through
the fleet so each ship has 1 or 2.
Best defence I've come up with is screening a bunch of banzai jammers a good
way ahead of the fleet with fighters then following the missiles in.
Jaime
I play a lot of my IJN ships, notice the mass ADFC system on all the ships..
Makes for good all around protection. Combine that with massive amount of
fighters and you should be able to keep the SM damage to a bare bare minimum,
if not taking them all out..
A preferred tactic though, is to take out the slimy weasel back stabbing
frenchman before they are in range to SM your butt... LOL
Vince
> Granted that your plotting them all to hit the same target and they
Spread them out. If you go whole hog into MT missiles you should be able to
whipe out just about all of the opposing fleet. Keep a couple of non ammo
dependant ships around to mop up, or just spread the beam batteries through
the fleet so each ship has 1 or 2.
Best defence I've come up with is screening a bunch of banzai jammers a good
way ahead of the fleet with fighters then following the missiles in.
> If you go whole hog into MT missiles you should be able
YMMV depending on the speed your group likes. If your ships usually move at
speed 4, then you'd better bring a lot of PDS to the fray or be missile
bait...if speed 40 and yo bob and weave a lot, then you'll be pretty safe.
> Jaime Tiampo wrote:
> As with all things, MT Missiles are something that requires moderation.
If
> you use 1 or 2 you might was well just aim them off the table. If you
True, but assuming you're using the Beta figher rules, those HMs can be
engaged by heavier weapons to 'thin the field' as it were. Wave motion guns,
obviously, will do a very nice job of wiping out a good chunk of your missile
salvo. As well, your ships are all one shot wonders. Assuming my force
survives the barrage, then I can butcher your launch veichles with impunity
thanks to the lack of FTL and beam weaponary. An unpleasant design, but not
anywhere near as bad as the soapbubble carrier:p
> As with all things, MT Missiles are something that requires
In your maths you have assumed that you can accurately guess the position of
the enemy ship with all the missiles and that your damage is spread evenly
though the enemy fleet.
Some other scenarios. Do you launch at long range? If so and the enemy is
using fighters or PBL launchers you can lose a bunch of the missiles on the
approach, or they are forced to burn extra endurance in order to evade the
PBLs.
Unless you play on a closed table and slow velocities then the opposing fleet
can simply run away from most of the missiles and then come back and kill you
once it the missiles have missed.
Also you don't want to play Kra'vak their advanced drives and scatter guns can
make a mess of missile waves. The exact same KV ship would have 15 scatter
packs and 9 MKP packs and 6
class 1 rail guns. The scatter packs auto kill one missile each and then the
MKPs inflict sufficient damage to kill you. Scatter packs also come with
their own ADFC so you can't overwhelm them.
Your design does reignite the old argument about whether the games are decided
by fleet designs or not. If an extreme fleet of say all beams or all ordnance
or all ordnance defence is taken then the whole game can become a giant game
of scissors, paper, stone.
Adam Flynn asked:
> 1) Missles, as described in More Thurst, don't appear in the list of
They are listed as "Missiles (MT type)" in the "Mass and Points Cost Table" on
FB1 p.11, along with the other More Thrust systems (cloaking fields, reflex
fields, ortillery etc.).
> 2) Can PDF fire be used to reduce the damage from a submunition
You mean "PDAF" (FT2 system) or "PDS" (FB1 system); "PDF" is an electronic
file format, not a Full Thrust spaceship component. No, SubMunition Packs fire
too many missiles for point defences to have any significant effect
against them.
> 3) If a ship with an velocity of 7 is making a 1 point turn to
You don't round the movement distance at all, only the course change.
> Essentially, does the turn occur at 3 or 4 inches along their current
3.5 inches.
****
John Tailby replied to Jaime Tiempo:
> As with all things, MT Missiles are something that requires
Not exactly - if you assign 2 PDSs to each Heavy Missile, you will on
average shoot down 75% of them... but the last 25% still get through.
Note however that the original question was about FT2 and MT, *not* about the
Fleet Book rules. The original FT2 PDAF only hit MT missiles on a roll of '6',
whereas the Fleet Book PDS hit them on '4' or better.
> Each missile (if a standard unit) causes on average 7 points of
Jaime also assumes that the defending PDS won't shoot down *any* of the
incoming missiles. That sounds rather pessimistic to me :-/
****
> >Granted that your plotting them all to hit the same target and they
If you spread the MT missiles out enough to avoid risk overkilling small
enemy escorts you virtually guarantee that some of your missiles will miss
completely, and if the enemy doesn't have ADFCs on all ships you also maximise
the number of defending PDSs. (If the enemy ships all have ADFCs they'll get
to fire all their PDSs regardless of whether or not your missiles are spread
out, of course.)
> If you go whole hog into MT missiles you should be able
Soon after I bought MT, my local opponents at the time believed in this theory
too. They reconsidered after a series of battles where their missile
boats failed to inflict a single damage point on my beam-armed ships :-/
The updated Heavy Missiles are quite a bit harder to outmanoeuvre than the
More Thrust version was, but no harder to outrun and easier to shoot down.
> Best defence I've come up with is screening a bunch of banzai jammers a
The best defence against MT/Heavy missiles launched from long range is
to turn away and outrun them. If the missiles launch from *close* range, you
want your BJs tucked in as close as possible to your real warships.
Regards,