[GZG] New GZG 15mm vehicle pics

Ok, I'm not as fast as Paul some days...

Still, they're up.

<http://okapi.andrew.cmu.edu/lerchey/www/gzg>

:)

And if I might say, considering that I hate 15mm, Darned nice looking stuff!
Now, to get Jon to do them all in 6mm....

J

> John Lerchey wrote:
John,

Thanks alot (again).

I'm curious though. Hate is a pretty strong word. Do you really hate 15mm?

There's alot of scales I don't play, but I don't *hate* them.

Hey, I'm a man of strong opinion, and I don't bow down the masses, unless
they've actually stoned me.:)

So, my rant is basically as follows. Many, many years ago, I started gaming in
25mm. Not 28mm, that explosion came much later. 25mm. Old Minifigs (before
they started turning their napoleonics into frogs), Der Kreigspieler, McEwan
(now Reversco), and others. I had huge armies of Ral Partha fantasy minis,
etc. And I was able to paint them.:)

My group also did WWII in micro. GHQ and H&R mostly, with a bit of CinC thrown
in. I could paint them too.

With the 25s, I was able to paint the detail to the level of the mini. There
were plenty of details on the figs, and they were all acheivable.

For 6mm, there was les to do, but as you folks from the ECC know, I do ok
painting them. I'm not saying that others don't paint better, 'cause I've
certainly seen better work on 6mm than I have the patience or skill for, but
I'm usually pretty happy with my work.

I painted a battalion of Minifig 15mm Napoleonic Coldstream Guards on
commission for a friend once. 45 figures or so. The 15s had about the same
level of detail as the 25s that I had been painting for myself. But they were
smaller. And some of the detail, like the collars with the backpacks sticking
up above them, made it really freakin' hard to do the piping.

Thus, I hate painting them.

Further, most people that I've talked to about why they switch to 15s, claim
to do so for cost reasons. "15s is cheeper than 25s". But many of those same
people won't do 6mm. "6s are too small." I find that to be a specious set of
arguments. Folks claim that it's a cost issue, but 6mm is cheaper than 15mm.
They claim that the 6mm stuff is too small, but never say *why* they are too
small.

I hate 15mm stuff for religious reasons.

Now, that said, before all of you 15 fanatics plan for my lynching at ECC XI,
let me show you what a hypocrit I can be.;)

I have used some 15mm minis as "small aliens" for 25mm games. And I've liked
them. Ral Partha, back in the early 80s released a few boxed sets of minis in
"game in a box" format. One game had 15mm asteroid miners
against   a bunch of aliens in pressure suits.	I loved the aliens, and
have about 50 or so of them. I guess I can hate 15mm but not hate all 15mm.

Further, I've seen some VERY nice games played out in 15mm. Indy's GZGverse
hits WWII game (Castle Wolfenstein) at ECC X was incredibley fun, and looked
great, and was done in 15mm. And Jon's new range of 15mm vehicles has simply
been spectacular. VERY nice models. I like the designs, the style, and the
quality of the minis. I just don't like the scale.

There. Now I've spread my hatred.

Oh, yeah. I almost forgot. I hate 2mm. They're too small.:D
(execpt that I have a few of Germys ground attack craft - they're so
damned cute!)

I now return you to your regularly scheduled adoration of all things Tuffly.

:)

John

> John Lerchey wrote:

_______________________________________________
Gzg-l mailing list
Gzg-l@lists.csua.berkeley.edu
http://lists.csua.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lI find this a bit
flawed,

"Further, most people that I've talked to about why they switch to 15s, claim
to do so for cost reasons. "15s is cheeper than 25s". But many of those same
people won't do 6mm. "6s are too small." I find that to be a specious set of
arguments. Folks claim that it's a cost issue, but 6mm is cheaper than 15mm.
They claim that the 6mm stuff is too small, but never say *why* they are too
small."

The price thing and size thing are separate arguments. I switched to 15mm for
a number of reasons, myself. 6mm may be too small for exactly the same reason
you do not like 15mm. 15mm is just small enough to reduce price while
maintaining the character of the figures. You can get a good amount of detail
in 15mm without having to bankrupt yourself. 15mm is also still big enough for
conversions and customizing. So, yes, for some 6mm is definitely too small.

-Eli

It can be as flawed as you like. I say that I hate 15mm. It should be ok for
me to hate them. YOU can like or love them. It bothers me not. My response to
Mark was supposed to be very tongue in cheek.

I'm happy to drop this now.

J

> I find this a bit flawed,

J with the L wrote on 04/19/2007 08:58:57 AM:

> It can be as flawed as you like. I say that I hate 15mm. It should

Which I found delightfully done, but humor can be a very difficult commodity
in religious issues. Just look at all the sectarian strife in the
Judeo-Christiano-Islamic religion...

> I'm happy to drop this now.

Well, you don't expect the rest of us to do so!!!

Given that most understood the humor, you prolly should have left it to the
reader's imagination, or lack there of, but I expect we'll hear a few more
comments. Just no more from me. ;->=

The_Beast

_______________________________________________
Gzg-l mailing list
Gzg-l@lists.csua.berkeley.edu
http://lists.csua.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lJust offering
another POV. Everyone has their favs. We get new players and people looking
for new options here so I thought I'd offer up my thoughts on the subject.
Suppose it did come across as a bit confrontational.

-Eli

[quoted original message omitted]

> J with the L wrote on 04/19/2007 08:58:57 AM:

Thank you!:)

> I'm happy to drop this now.

No, not really, but I figured that it was worth a shot...

> Given that most understood the humor, you prolly should have left it

Good man.:)

J

> The_Beast

_______________________________________________
Gzg-l mailing list
Gzg-l@lists.csua.berkeley.edu
> http://lists.csua.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lJohn Lerchey wrote:
Hey, on this list, just about anything's worth a shot. The question is,
with what weapon and from what range? I favour Graser-6s from
point-blank when trying to end an argument, myself... ;-)

Phil

I'm confronted daily. No anger on my part.:)

John

> Just offering another POV. Everyone has their favs. We get new

> [mailto:gzg-l-bounces@lists.csua.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of John
gzg-l@lists.csua.berkeley.edu
> Subject: RE: [GZG] New GZG 15mm vehicle pics
My
> response to Mark was supposed to be very tongue in cheek.

Nice tanks. Maybe something for Old Crow to do in 25mm?

> John Lerchey wrote:
My response to Mark was supposed to be very tongue in cheek.
> I'm happy to drop this now.
John,

I'm glad you took my comment in the spirit it was intended. I thought your
response was excellent. It just goes to show how personal scale decisions are.
It has alot to do with history and personal aesthetics.

I started mini gaming in 15mm with Striker and the old Martian Metals minis
when I was in my teens. I didn't play with them for over 20 years.

Then a little over a year ago Suddenly one night I got curious whether there
were any 15mm vehicles out there (always a problem in the old
days). Martian Metals made a few which have now been re-released by
RAFM. I discovered GZG that night and spent several hours on web searches. A
few nights later I was wondering if there were any cons I could go to. Imagine
my surprise to discover GZG ECC was two hours away in Lancaster, PA.

I like painting 15mm, I love working my old minis into a scenario. I've spent
a fair amount of money collecting figs and vehicles that I desperately wanted
as a kid. So I can't abandon 15mm. I also like the look of the figure scale to
ground scale ratio. A look at the pictures from Stuart Murray's "Company
Rules" game from GZG IX will tell you why I love 15mm.

If I didn't have any 15mm I'd probably be more active in 6mm and 25mm. I

have a few of each scale I haven't done anything with. After the latest
offering from GZG and the re-release of the vehicles from RAFM I'm even
more solidly in the 15mm camp. As soon as Jon issues the 15mm Grav Tank and
APC's in platoon packs I'll place an order.

heh. I actually remember when Martian Metals came out with the 15mm sci fi
tanks. I was at a convention in Baltimore, helping a lawyer (of all people) to
run a game of Longsword, developed and produced by a local Pgh gaming group. I
saw the tanks in the vendor area and drooled on the spot. I didn't have the
money to buy any then. And since I was then playing Starguard in 25mm, I would
have used the as light tanks or something. But still, I feel for your
nostalgia. I too have some stuff that my friends think are simply horrible
minis because I liked them back in 1975 or so when I started gaming.:)

If I had started in 15mm I likely wouldn't hate them.

But over the years I have really grown to love what I can do with large
battles in 6mm. And there seems to be a resurgence on the market, at least
somewhat. I'm not hurting for units, only for time to paint and play.

Now I'll return myself to the evil of painted my converted turtle blood bowl
team...;)

John

> John Lerchey wrote:
Imagine
> my surprise to discover GZG ECC was two hours away in Lancaster, PA.
I've
> spent a fair amount of money collecting figs and vehicles that I

> look of the figure scale to ground scale ratio. A look at the pictures

> from Stuart Murray's "Company Rules" game from GZG IX will tell you
I
> have a few of each scale I haven't done anything with. After the

> John Lerchey wrote:

> minis when I was in my teens. I didn't play with them for over 20
Imagine
> my surprise to discover GZG ECC was two hours away in Lancaster, PA.
I've
> spent a fair amount of money collecting figs and vehicles that I
John,

I was at that Con. I still have the APC and Tank they unveiled then. Retail
would have been around $30 which was 10 hours of picking green beans at the
time for me. Totally worth it.

> Now I'll return myself to the evil of painted my converted turtle

This I find hilarious.

Hilarious, but real. I'm using Eureka Turtles and Terapins. I just finished
painting the larger guys (turtles), and am about half way done with the little
ones (terrapins). I'll take pics when they're sealed and based.

My other BB team is robotic, made from various synthoids from Excalibur
Miniatures in Germany. I have to finish their bases and seal them, then I'll
take pics of them as well.

I like playing BB, but I won't buy GW minis to do it.:)

J

> Now I'll return myself to the evil of painted my converted turtle

My world keeps getting smaller. Sadly, I was doing the con as a favor for the
gaming group and was as poor as the dirt you were picking plants from.:P

J

John K. Lerchey Assistant Director for Incident Response Information Security
Office Carnegie Mellon University

> On Fri, 20 Apr 2007, Mark Kinsey wrote:

> John Lerchey wrote:
 But
> still, I feel for your nostalgia. I too have some stuff that my
Imagine
> my surprise to discover GZG ECC was two hours away in Lancaster, PA.
I've
> spent a fair amount of money collecting figs and vehicles that I
Retail
> would have been around $30 which was 10 hours of picking green beans

That's just how "me 'n the lads" feel about Necromunda, especially since GW
doesn't sell it's Necro ganger range in Australia, and
expects us to buy by mail-order from the US or UK. Still, chops to GW
for making the rules available for free download. Glass half-full and
all that.

RNB

> On 20/04/2007, at 23:54 , John Lerchey wrote:

> I like playing BB, but I won't buy GW minis to do it. :)

_______________________________________________
Gzg-l mailing list
Gzg-l@lists.csua.berkeley.edu
http://lists.csua.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lWell for what it's
worth, I think that a 15mm sci-fi scale is the ducks guts, with 15yr
old's playing F.O.W in 15mm, they are not put off by the 15mm scale these
days, I think they use to see 15mm as the old boy's scale, and the rules to
support 15's for historical periods, were painful to say the least, and some
of the historical period figure's were just as bad. In the past decade any new
GW gamer, yes I use the dreaded, I got into this hobby playing GW phrase, was
a 28mm gamer, I think that wargaming is like fashion, what's hot one minute is
last season the next, sure you can wear your levi's with everything but give
short's a chance. How many people brought other company's, 6mm sci fi to go
with there OGRE or Battletech games. No seriously you can way up the pro's and
con's of 15. But I think not to do 15's, from a manufacturing point of view,
would be a far greater crime.Well done jon.

remember if you may like 15mm sci fi,but your mate might not, or no one may no
that 15mm sci fi exsist.

my advice, If you demo them they will come.

If they see them painted they will by.

If your demo table, yell's louder than the GW demo table they will flock to
you.

And if you charge 35 dollars Aus for one 18cent Aus figure, when it's dad's
turn to take you for the weekend he will by your love, by the blister full.lol

Oh 1980's 6mm warsaw pact forces, the lead sinker's of a 1990's wargamer who
fisher's.