[GZG] maximum possible thrust

I have seen in some of the spreadsheet design programs that 8 is the maximum
allowable thrust but haven't see this in the design rules. Is 8 the hard limit
or just a practical limit since thrust 8 consumes some 40% of the ship's mass.

Thanks,

> I have seen in some of the spreadsheet design programs that 8 is the

There's no limit in the rules, so you can have as big a Main Drive as you can
make fit. I have several reconnaissance ship designs which call for MD12 or
better.

> --- Steven Gott <stevengott@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I have seen in some of the spreadsheet design

In FT2.0, 8 was a hard limit imposed by rules.

In FT 2.5 (Fleet Book rules), the limit no longer applies.

> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Laserlight wrote:

> There's no limit in the rules, so you can have as big a Main Drive as

Holy $&%*^$(&!!!  Ok, notes to self:
1) When instructing new players, let them know that generally MD6 is the
largest drive to expect. Every once in a while someone will bring a bigger
drive to the party.

2) MD12 or *BETTER*??? What did they do? Bolt a seat and handlebars to rocket
engines and let a nut in a spacesuit ride it?

Please post the designs, Laserlight.

_______________________________________________
Gzg-l mailing list
Gzg-l@lists.csua.berkeley.edu
> http://lists.csua.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lMike wrote:

Hmmm, sound like WAY to many of my starships from StarFire BEFORE they began
seperateing the drive rooms:o)
(One P.O.ed Puddy-Tat strapped to 6 intact engines.... the only thing he
can do is make rude gestures:o)

Randy

From: "Mike Stanczyk"
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Laserlight wrote:

Here are a couple of variants:

Night Vision class Reconnaissance Frigate TMF 19 Hull Integrity 2 Armament:
none
Defenses: Stealth-2
Sensors: Superior sensors Drives: Thrust 12, FTL

Night Music class Recon Frigate as above but delete Stealth, replace Superior
sensors with Enhanced, increase Thrust to 16

In my FT universe there is no FTL equivalent to radio, and communication
between systems relies on Message Sloops. When designing my "Hermes" class
sloops, I quickly discovered that one
runs into interesting threshold and rounding effects with low mass/
high thrust-factor ships under the FB1/FB2 design rules.

Class Name: Hermes Classification:Message Sloop (Popular with smugglers too?)
Displacement:2400 Tonnes [MASS Factor 24] Hull Type:Fragile [Hull Integrity 2]
Crew:1 officer, 2 ratings [Crew Factor 1] (Civ crew level; Who'll get a chance
to do any damage control anyway?) Armament:None Defences:None (Speed?) Sensor
Suite:Standard sensors Drive Systems:Main Drive Rating:16 FTL (Jump) Capable
Cargo/Passenger Space:1

By dropping the Cargo/Passenger capacity, I could take the thrust
rating up to 17, but then there was no mass left over for ANY other system,
and I think (by all means correct me!) that's the practical limit for an FTL
ship. Beyond that the minimum mass required for FTL drive and hull integrity
start to get in the way.

The cargo space can be replaced with Enhanced Sensors to make a recce ship
("Argus" class), but if you want Superior Sensors (mass 2) then the thrust
rating has to come down to 15

Incidentally, I don't think Laserlight's "Night Music" class is "legal" on a
TMF of 19:

Hull Integrity 2 (10% TMF rounded up)
FTL Drive      2 (10% TMF rounded up)
Thrust-16     15 (80% TMF rounded down)

Adds up to 19 mass without the Enhanced Sensors. Add 1 to TMF for the sensors,
and rounding takes the mass required for the thrust rating up to 16 so it
still won't work. I think you'd need a minimum TMF of 23 to fit everything in.

To train ourselves in vector movement, we messed about with inter-
system through-the-gates "yacht racing". Assuming minimum hulls, FTL
drives and *no* extra mass systems, maximum thrust ratings for TMF classes
come out something like this:

Class? TMF Thrust Hull Boxes

Club 3 9 1 (Probably designed by some 22nd century Colin Chapman...) 4 12 1 5
13 1 6 14 1
F3	 7     15	   1
F2       8-10  16          1
F1      11-14  17          1
NASCAR  15-23 <17          2  (Lardy, and can't even support 17
thrust because rounding takes hull boxes up to 2, so what's the point?)
Le Mans 24     17	   2

So, I *think* 17 is the maximum possible thrust rating for an FTL-
capable ship. A non-FTL ship can go up to thrust 18, and I think
that's it. Thrust 19 would require 95% TMF, not leaving enough mass for the
minimum hull. Mind you, such massively powered ships might not actually be
very useful or fun, even on a big table. We played around with "Catch The
Smuggler." and "Bad guys drop into the system; Can they stop the message sloop
escaping to bring help?" scenarios, but they weren't that great.

Best regards, Robert "I feel the need; The need for speed!" Bryett
rbryett@mail.com

> On 16/10/2005, at 11:52 PM, Laserlight wrote:

With a custom hull (1 box regardless of size) you can get a mass 4,
MD17+FTL
ship.
Mass 6 for MD18 non-ftl & mass 11 for MD19 non-ftl.
Not good for much, but possible to do.

With FTL TMF Hull FTL MD17 Excess(MD17) MD16 Excess (MD16)
1       1       0       1       -1      1       -1
2       1       0       2       -1      2       -1
3       1       0       3       -1      2       0
4       1       0       3       0       3       0
5       1       1       4       -1      4       -1
6       1       1       5       -1      5       -1
7       1       1       6       -1      6       -1
8       1       1       7       -1      6       0
9       1       1       8       -1      7       0
10      1       1       9       -1      8       0
11 1 1 9 0 9 0 12 1 1 10 0 10 0 13 1 1 11 0 10 1 14 1 1 12 0 11 1
15      1       2       13      -1      12      0
16      1       2       14      -1      13      0
17 1 2 14 0 14 0 18 1 2 15 0 14 1 19 1 2 16 0 15 1 20 1 2 17 0 16 1 21 1 2 18
0 17 1 22 1 2 19 0 18 1 23 1 2 20 0 18 2 24 1 2 20 1 19 2 25 1 3 21 0 20 1

Without FTL: TMF Hull MD19 Total(MD19) MD18 Total (MD18)
1       1       1       -1      1       -1
2       1       2       -1      2       -1
3       1       3       -1      3       -1
4       1       4       -1      4       -1
5       1       5       -1      5       -1
6       1       6       -1      5       0
7       1       7       -1      6       0
8       1       8       -1      7       0
9       1       9       -1      8       0
10      1       10      -1      9       0
11 1 10 0 10 0 12 1 11 0 11 0 13 1 12 0 12 0 14 1 13 0 13 0 15 1 14 0 14 0 16
1 15 0 14 1 17 1 16 0 15 1 18 1 17 0 16 1 19 1 18 0 17 1 20 1 19 0 18 1 21 1
20 0 19 1 22 1 21 0 20 1 23 1 22 0 21 1 24 1 23 0 22 1 25 1 24 0 23 1 26 1 25
0 23 2 27 1 26 0 24 2 28 1 27 0 25 2 29 1 28 0 26 2 30 1 29 0 27 2

Brendan 'Neath Southern Skies

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> With a custom hull (1 box regardless of size) you can get a mass 4,

Is that "legal"? FB2 introduced "free" hull boxes (i.e. not restricted to the
fixed fragile, weak, average, strong, super increments of 10%), but I think
FB2 still specifies that a minimum of 10% TMF be allocated to hull integrity.

Has there been a change, or is this a house rule?

> > With a custom hull (1 box regardless of size) you can get a mass

1 hull is rather more than 10% of a mass 4 ship, though. Although I don't see
that Brendan's numbers work either:

1 mass minimum for hull 1 mass minimum for FTL 2 mass = maximum 12 thrust MD
(60% of 4 = 2.4)

(as for the Night Music not adding up correctly... well, the Alarishi Empire
is known to practice disinformation, misinformation, deception, and
misdirection. Either that or I typed MD16 when I meant MD15).

Thanks everybody for your replies.

By my math the following ships with FTL could have thrust 17 (and nothing
else).

19 Thrust ship 95% mass rounded, minimum 1 Fragile Hull 10% mass rounded,
minimum 1 FTL Drive 10% mass rounded, minimum 1

Possible Hulls 11 Mass 9 Mass Drive 1 Mass FTL Drive 1 Mass Hull 12 Mass 10
Mass Drive 1 Mass FTL Drive 1 Mass Hull 13 Mass 11 Mass Drive 1 Mass FTL Drive
1 Mass Hull 14 Mass 12 Mass Drive 1 Mass FTL Drive 1 Mass Hull 24 Mass 20 Mass
Drive 2 Mass FTL Drive 2 Mass Hull

By the same rounding you can have an FTL less ship with a thrust of 19 at the
following masses:

19 Thrust ship 95% mass rounded, minimum 1 Fragile Hull 10% mass rounded,
minimum 1