My 0.02 Credits:
1. Not in favour of a web forum at all. I'm a digest reader and infinitely
(yes, infinitely!) prefer email. I can scan 4 digests of differing threads in
a few minutes, something a web forum wouldn't conveniently let me do. I can
pretty much gaurantee that I'll fall off the list (and so may some others) if
we went to forum format. And forums and digests are not terribly compatible
AFAIK.
2. Moderation: I have always believed the best moderation is stopping reading
a post or thread whose tone you don't like. It is as effective at ending
discussions from a reader's perspective as moderation. Moderation inevitably
involves warnings, responses, and then justifications and so on. I find that
as tiresome as listening to posters being tiresome (which I can easily just
skip past). That's only a personal view, but it is how I feel about it.
3. Sometimes immoderate responses are still useful and replete with
information. One might wish they were phrased more politely from time to time,
but you rarely improve the situation with bans and that certainly never
encourages the guilty parties to reform from what I've seen.
So, mark me down as a nay-sayer both on web forum and moderation. I've
been on this list since I think about 1995-1996 time frame and its had
better and worse days (frankly, if I had moderation, I'd have to ask sheep
references be moderated out of existence....) and it is still better than
most. This and the TML are the only two internet lists I bother with.
Thomas B. www.stargrunt.ca's other half
> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Tom B <kaladorn@gmail.com> wrote:
Me neither. However, I suspect it's inevitable. It depends on the
dependability of the mailing list. If it gets flaky enough, the solution will
probably end up being some form of web forum.
As I've said in the past, I'm a frequent visitor to one or two forums and I
occasionally pop into a dozen or more. The biggest problem with web forums is
that you're at the mercy of whomever happens to be around at the time you post
a question.
> I'm a digest reader and
I find the exact opposite. I can scan a forum page pretty quickly to see which
threads I might be interested in. I can then open each thread in a new tab.
I suspect the digest wouldn't work for you if the volume was at the
level of some of the busier forums. In fact, e-mail works for the GZG
list because the volume isn't that great.
> I can pretty much gaurantee that I'll fall off
I agree. A forum only makes sense when the volume is high.
> 2. Moderation: I have always believed the best moderation is stopping
This is a pretty civilized forum, with everyone a fan of the same
game. Most e-mail programs allow filters, too, so you have the ability
to moderate certain people yourself. If enough people ignore someone because
they are offensive, they soon get the hint and leave.
Moderation is a necessity in web forums of any size. Something big, like
RPG.net, is a magnet for a bunch of loonies, if for no other reason than to
stop people posting p0rN links to the site. (I'm not a prude; I wrote it that
way to, hopefully, bypass filters!).
> Moderation inevitably involves warnings, responses, and then
Unless you use RPG.net's method, which is to clearly post a sticky message
with the rules and have a team of moderators that aren't afraid to use them.
They post a short warning. No response to the warning is allowed in the thread
(they have a separate "Trouble Ticket" forum for that). If you argue the
point, the moderators ban you from the thread and delete your objection.
Not everyone is happy with what happens there, but I have to say that I've had
no complaints. I think it works because there is a place to vent if you feel
you were unduly treated, and it's an area that most users don't bother
visiting.
> 3. Sometimes immoderate responses are still useful and replete with
I agree, though the types of people I'm talking about above _never_
reform regardless of what happens.
> So, mark me down as a nay-sayer both on web forum and moderation. I've
Nah, you'd just set up a new Sheep forum.
> This and the TML are the only two internet lists I
I'm mostly active on RPG.net because of my book (and soon to be books). I
haven't been too active here of late. My muse is occupied elsewhere (which is
why I didn't bother jumping in on the colony discussion), and there's been
little to playtest. I suspect that the playtesting will pick up about the time
I'm playtesting my new RPG in the fall, which would figure.
All you girls play nice and quit crying. Neither party has done more than talk
and neither seems upset at all about the personal level of their being called
out. If you don't like the tone, ignore the thread.
Bob Makowsky
----- Original Message ----
From: Tom B <kaladorn@gmail.com>
To: gzg-l@vermouth.csua.berkeley.edu
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 9:41:21 AM
Subject: Re: [GZG] List moderation
My 0.02 Credits:
1. Not in favour of a web forum at all. I'm a digest reader and infinitely
(yes, infinitely!) prefer email. I can scan 4 digests of differing threads in
a few minutes, something a web forum wouldn't conveniently let me do. I can
pretty much gaurantee that I'll fall off the list (and so may some others) if
we went to forum format. And forums and digests are not terribly compatible
AFAIK.
2. Moderation: I have always believed the best moderation is stopping reading
a post or thread whose tone you don't like. It is as effective at ending
discussions from a reader's perspective as moderation. Moderation inevitably
involves warnings, responses, and then justifications and so on. I find that
as tiresome as listening to posters being tiresome (which I can easily just
skip past). That's only a personal view, but it is how I feel about it.
3. Sometimes immoderate responses are still useful and replete with
information. One might wish they were phrased more politely from time to time,
but you rarely improve the situation with bans and that certainly never
encourages the guilty parties to reform from what I've seen.
So, mark me down as a nay-sayer both on web forum and moderation. I've
been on this list since I think about 1995-1996 time frame and its had
better and worse days (frankly, if I had moderation, I'd have to ask sheep
references be moderated out of existence....) and it is still better than
most. This and the TML are the only two internet lists I bother with.
Thomas B. www.stargrunt.ca's other half
The other issue that I think GZG would have with a Forum is normally we don't
have massive traffic, that keep a forum active. This is the 1st multiple
digest days I can remember in a long time. Email list can survive a slow
period, but forums that are "slow" die off.
That being said if Jon sets up a forum for us, and picks moderators to make it
"play nice" then we will arrive somehow. But I would hate to see the email
group going away. After all there has been many good idea I have mined from
here for our local game.
And we last debated the idea in July of 06, funny how it soon it comes around
again.
In Memory of Russ Manduca 7/22/67-1/8/08
Just a Lurker here on the Digest, But maybe I have a good idea or 2..
:-)
Or a few questions, that need answering
Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have
hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else
thereafter. Â Â Â Â ~ Ernest Hemmingway