[GZG] HH minis

Its good to see that I am not the only one waiting for the HH minis. I just
checked the Ad astra forum and noticed certain posts from noam and derek.

the question is are you getting sits and/or going to used these minis in
the FT universe? These minis in my book would be useful to be a small
independent starnation, totally different from anybody elses navy designs.

BIF

> david smith wrote:

> the question is are you getting sits and/or going to used these minis

SITS, unfortunately, looks like a complex rules set. A friend of mine sat
through a demonstration session at GenCon and it took them 15 minutes to go
through an explanation of the turn sequence and his head was spinning.

Therefore, I think they'll have good success with the minitures, but the game
will have a smaller following.

One thing to keep in mind with the HH minis - they'll be small.  In the
HH universe, ships are HUGE. In the Ad Astra SITS game, they ships have to be
able to fit in roughly the space of the cardboard box ship counters that

they use. So most of the ships will be small when compared to an FT ship,
but I hear that the cargo ships are pretty big, being around 2.5"-3.5"
long. :)

John

--On Sunday, September 11, 2005 11:04 AM +0000 david smith
> <bifsmith207@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Its good to see that I am not the only one waiting for the HH minis. I

Given that Ad Astras "Attack Vector" uses charts for how you change facing, in
a very realistic 3 dimensional vector based movement system, and that

"SITS" stands for "Saganami Island TACTICAL Siumlator" (my emphasis), you can
bet that it is a much more complicated set of rules, with a very different
intent than Full Thrust.

FT is designed to handle medium to large fleets, with a strong emphasis on
"fast and fun" play.

SITS is a *simulator* designed to allow for tactical combat between a few
ships per side - like maybe 4 per player if they're very familiar with
the rules.

IMHO, simulations do not always make for good games.

I played Attack Vector once, with one ship per player (two players), no
complex weapons (no coil guns or missiles), and only 2D movement. It took us
about 4 hours, and while we *knew* which ship was going to win, we had not
achieved resolution.

For folks who like very detailed simulator-style games, I strongly
suggest Attack Vector or SITS. For those who like fast resolution with a
pile-o-ships, stick with something like FT.

Ok, opinion machine now going back off line.;)

John

--On Sunday, September 11, 2005 7:55 AM -0400 Jon Davis
> <davisje@nycap.rr.com> wrote:

> david smith wrote:

> One thing to keep in mind with the HH minis - they'll be small.

They have changed the scale again to 1:12000 so the minis will be even larger.
The big cargo ships are a bit over 4" and the SDNs when released will be even
larger than that. The small DDs are over and inch long (29.3mm to 31.7mm) I
have a table of the sizes of all the miniatures in this release up on my
website:
http://www.star-ranger.com/SITS.htm

> "SITS" stands for "Saganami Island TACTICAL Simulator" (my emphasis),

In the works is "Saganami Island Fleet Training" along with "Attack Vector:
Fleets" which will probably remove the 3D aspect but still use vector
movement. They will be more comparable to FT and it sounds like they will
include some rules on how well the sub-commanders of the fleet follow
the admiral's orders.

Dean,

Thanks for the update and correction.:)

Seeing the sizes in print helps a lot.

John

--On Sunday, September 11, 2005 10:47 AM -0500 Star Ranger
> <dean@star-ranger.com> wrote:

> One thing to keep in mind with the HH minis - they'll be small.

G'day,

Derek is looking forward to the ships but will "see how it goes on the rules".

We've played a few games of AT:V. They've been fun but definitely only for a
few ships at a time. The first release of AT:V also had a fair few proof
reading misses, though the next release version* looks to much better and has
some very stepped through examples. AT:V can have a steep learning curve,
though the new examples make those curves much much shallower. Having said
that I had heard that SITS was to be much simpler and so may allow for the
"typical gamers desire" of more ships and faster play;)

Given the investment buying from the States is for us, Derek is happy to sit
back and wait to see exactly how much simpler SITS turns out.... Nothing will
keep him from the minis though;)

*This is based on a pre-release set I was allowed to look through I
don't think its available as yet.

Cheers