http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihA_P62qhNj8msk8I14rjV
foNOKQD9F7NQVO0
This gives an interesting environmental angle for volcanic or dust
heavy planets - impairing or curtailing VTOL and aerospace fighter use
during particularly dusty periods. You could fly through them if you had to
for CAS, CAP, or Casevac, but you might be risking losing your bird.
I recall reading sometime in the 2000s, a 747 flew through a dust cloud at
over 30K ft, lost all 4 engines, and dropped to 20K ft or below before it got
a restart. Had to do an emergency landing in Indonesia. That had to be pretty
fearsome for the passengers and crew.
I'm sure some sort of dust filter might help at the intake, but ultimately any
form of turbofan or turbojet needs to suck in a high
volume of air and if small silica-based chunks can sneak through, they
can melt in the high temperatures of those engines. Not sure there really is
much of a solution for this one.
Would not affect helos as much or rockets much at all afaik. Mind you, the
same aforementioned 747 apparently lost all visibility to the outside world
due to the windows being covered in ash residue. That might be something some
form of electrostatic repulsion might be able
to dislodge (or not) and I suppose most all-weather military vehicles
of the future would be able to fly by instrument alone (assuming nothing
screws them up).
Still, always looking for the gaming angle....
TomB
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http://mail.csua.berkeley.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lOn Wed, Apr 21,
> 2010 at 8:28 PM, Tom B <kaladorn@gmail.com> wrote:
> [quoted text omitted]
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihA_P62qhNj8msk8I14rjV
foNOKQD9F7NQVO0
> This gives an interesting environmental angle for volcanic or dust
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9
> I'm sure some sort of dust filter might help at the intake, but
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http://mail.csua.berkeley.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lOn BBC World
this morning, they were interviewing several safety experts who brought up a
good point. Engines are rated and tested rigorously for
all sorts of events, including bird strikes. But since there is a guideline
saying "don't fly in volcanic ash" it's not tested for. So no one has any idea
what a "safe" concentration of ash is.
Plus there's the issue that even if there was a known safe concentration
to fly through, it would still increase the maintenance/inspection
regimen on the engines so the airlines might not want to do it from a cost
perspective.
There's three levels of safety; country, airline, pilot. If any one of them
says no to flying, they don't fly.
I know it's more bureaucratic and less scientific, but more possible game
ideas?
-Mark K.
> On 4/21/2010 10:30 PM, Matthew Seidl wrote:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihA_P62qhNj8msk8I14rjV
foNOKQD9F7NQVO0
> This gives an interesting environmental angle for volcanic or dust
That
> might be something some form of electrostatic repulsion might be
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> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:59:25PM -0400, Mark Kinsey wrote:
> cost perspective.
Normal income + increased maintenance costs is better than no income at
all. Which is why they've been pushing so hard to be allowed to start flying
ASAP, irrespective of safety (of course they don't mention that last bit).
> There's three levels of safety; country, airline, pilot. If any one of
> them says no to flying, they don't fly.
Though in the last case he's usually looking for a new job next day.
There are _lots_ of people who want to be airline pilots.
Here are some pictures from the first Finnish F/A-18 to go through:
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/04/16/340727/pictures-finnish-
f-18-engine-check-reveals-effects-of-volcanic.html
----- Original Message ----
From: Roger Burton West <roger@firedrake.org>
To: gzg-l@mail.csua.berkeley.edu
Sent: Thu, April 22, 2010 3:46:49 AM
Subject: Re: [GZG] Fighters and other military planes grounded by ash
> Though in the last case he's usually looking for a new job next day.
This is completely untrue. One major component of any safe and successful
flying organization is the pilots being able to make good
risk-management decisions.
There may be lots of people who want the job, but the good companies look for
managers that will look positively on good risk decisions.
> TomB wrote:
> I'm sure some sort of dust filter might help at the intake, but
A dust filter with a fine enough mesh to catch the volcanic ash would
effectively choke a jet engine or turbine (including the turbines on many
modern helicopters). Piston engines manage a lot better though,
so WW2-era aircraft shouldn't be too badly bothered by these conditions.
> and if small silica-based chunks can sneak through, they
Helos depend on the engine type used; rockets... well, the *engines* should be
unaffected at least <g>
> Mind you, the same aforementioned 747 apparently lost all visibility to
Not just covered, but sandblasted opaque. They had to replace the windscreen
and three out of four engines before the aircraft could be
ferried back to the UK for more serious repairs :-/ (Again WW2-era
propeller aircraft should manage better - they fly slowly enough that
the sandblasting effect is reduced :-/ )
Regards,
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http://mail.csua.berkeley.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lOn Thu, Apr 22,
2010 at 4:00 PM, Oerjan Ariander <orjan.ariander1@comhem.se>wrote:
> TomB wrote:
[...]
> Mind you, the same aforementioned 747 apparently lost all visibility
Ahhh, technology! :-D
Mk
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http://mail.csua.berkeley.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/gzg-lOn Thu, Apr 22,
> 2010 at 3:54 PM, Indy <indy.kochte@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ahhh, technology! :-D
I wouldn't ditch metal jets around volcanoes quite yet.
The 1944 Vesuvius eruption destroyed between 78 and 88 B-25s of the
340th Bombardment Group. Turns out that hot ash might not wreck
propeller-driving
piston engines, but it plays hell with wings covered in fabric. It also
melted, glazed and cracked plexiglass. Oh, and the weight of the ash tipped
a bunch of B-25s on their tails.
Moral of the story: Plane + Volcano Plume = Bad. :)
JGH
> Allan Goodall wrote:
> in fabric. It also melted, glazed and cracked plexiglass. Oh, and the