[GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

13 posts · Apr 4 2008 to Apr 7 2008

From: Timophey (Tengel) Potapenko <potapenkoteo@m...>

Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:27:07 +0400

Subject: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

In the Name of Socialism. VKF, as it is shown in the "Fleet Book 1" follows
mostly Russian (or better to say Soviet Union) naval traditions. That affects
not only ranking system, crew official and nonofficial customs, but also
nominating ships. In this brief article I want to give some impression of how
to name military ships to make them sound "Soviet" and "Communist". The truth
is, that Russian Navy hasn't ever had any single system of ships' names
(that's probably because of relative insignificense of the Russian VMS (navy)
in comparison with "Ground Forces", unlike, let's say, Britain, Russia has
always been a continental power). It would be more right to say, that Russian
navy has a mix of traditions, and some of them were different in times of
Empire and the Soviet Union. Let's, finally look at them. Tradition 1.
Adjectives. In the last years of the 19th century our navy got new class of
ships: fast torpedo armed destroyers (in Russian "esmintsi"). For those
completely new light ships Admiralty set up a new tradition: give them numbers
or adjective names instead of nouns. Note, that in British navy, adjectives
(like "Invincible") belong to capital
ships, but in Russian - to light ones (no bigger than destroyers).
Additional rule: at the beginning they tried to invent the names for the ships
of the same design, starting of the same letter. So I would suggest adjectives
as the names of the ESU escorts. Russians say "he" about their fighting ships
(but submarines are "ladies"), and Russian male adjectives end with a
combination of an impossible for any
English-speaker vowel (written like "bl" in capitals), and a consonant,
which sounds like the "y" in English word "play". So normally that
combination is written "-iy", "-ii", or "-y" when transliterated into
English. Very good and traditional for Russian escort would be names
Agressivny (Aggressive), Aktivny (Active), Bespokoyny (Disturbing, Restless),
Voinstvenny (Militant), Gremiashchiy (Thundering), Derzky (Daring),
Proslavlenny (Renown), Sovremenny (Modern), Yasny (Clear) etc. Tradition 2.
"Flyers". From the very beginning Russian submarines got the names of fish and
other water creatures: Akula (Shark), Krokodil (Crocodile), Krab (Crab); while
amphibious ships often got names after small or medium predators: Kunitsa
(Marten), Rossomaha (Wolverine).
So, once "swimming" submarines got fish-names, then "flying" spaceships
should have birds' names: Orel (eagle), Voron (vulture), Yastreb (falcon),
Socol (also falcon, but of different kind), Orlan, Filin, Albatros,
Burevestnik, Chaika, Skopa would be nice. But more popular are not flying
birds but flying winds. We still have in Russian Navy "Buria", "Shtorm" (both
mean storm). But in Russian science fiction our spaceships are often called
after snow winds. The most
popular spaceship in Russian Sci-fi is called "Hius" (Hius - is strong
cold wind, which blows in steppes in February). Like in Arabian language there
are 20 words for "Camel", in Russian there are several words for
"blizzard", and many of them are used for warships, while the last - for
real spaceship. Here are some (and all of them are different blizzards):
Poziomka, Metel, Viuga, Purga, Zariad, Buran.
Tradition 3. Geography. That tradition evolved in 1920s-30s, and it is
still used, but it has changed much and became nonsystematic nowdays. I'll try
to restore it.
So, in 1920s-1930s some light cruisers were named after big national
areas of the USSR. The idea was to underline communist loyalty of the areas.
They were "Krasny Crim" ("Red Crimea", note male adjective ending); "Krasny
Kavkaz" ("Red Caucasus"); "Chervona Ukraina" ("Red Ukraine", not Russian, but
Ukranian language name). Gunboats had the names of the smaller regions, there
were for example "Krasnaya Abhazia" ("Red Abhasia"), "Krasnaya Gruziya" ("Red
Georgia"), "Krasnaya Armenia".
In VKF ESU there are some light cruisers of the "Tibet" project. Tibet -
is a national mountain area in China. Add word "Krasny" and get the name of
the tradition: "Krasny Kavkaz", "Krasny Tibet", "Krasny Xinjian", "Krasnaya
Transilvania" etc.
There were other ships in old Soviet Navy in 1920-1940s, which class was
called "leaders". Leaders were smaller then cruisers but bigger than
esminets-classes (destroyers), so we also may consider them like
cruisers. They were named after capitals of the Soviet republics "Moskva",
"Kharkov", "Tashkent", "Kiev". And, finally, Soviet battleships were also
called after biggest ports and renown naval
fortresses: "Vladivostok", "Petropavlovsk", "Sevastopol", "Archangelsk"+
In VKF ESU there are some ships of "Bejing" project. So, it would look
authentic if some cruisers (even big ones,  cause "Kiev-class carriers"
in Soviet Navy were also officially called "aircraft carrying cruisers") in
ESU squadrons would have names of local capitals. E g "Changsha", "Kunming",
"Namp'o", "Nagpur", "Rostov", "Minsk", "Bratislava" etc. The biggest
battleship of the Soviet Navy was going to get name "Sovetskiy Soyuz" (The
Soviet Union), but it hadn't ever been finished. So I would suggest this kind
of "geographical line, going up". Cruisers
are named after lands and local cities. Battlecruisers and battleships -
after biggest cities and small countries with adding words "Sovetsky"
(Soviet), "Narodny" (People's), "Sotsialistichesky" (Socialist) or "Krasny"
(Red) ("Sovetskaya Manchuria", "Leningrad", "Narodnaya Korea",
"Sotsialisticheskaya Chekhoslovakia"). Dreadnoughts might have names after the
biggest territories, planets, star systems ("Sovetskiy Soyuz", "Chzhun Go").
Tradition 3. Revolutionaries. In this "tradition" there are two "branches":
revolutionary events, and revolutionary leaders and organizations. Events.
Biggest and the most powerful capital ships were named after the most powerful
or most significant Communist revolutions. In the soviet Navy there were
battleships "Parizhskaya Komunna" (Paris Commune) and "Octyabrskaya
Revolyutsia" (October Revolution). You may call your battleships and
battledreadnoughts after any revolution you like from
history of the past or GZG-universe.
Leaders. It's easy. Take any revolutionary or communist leader from any
history and give his (her) last name for a ship. If you want to name a ship
after a Chinese revolutionary, take his full name. The only rule: more
powerful ships should be called after a bigger leader. Let's say "Bauman" or
"Komarov" for destroyer, "Mikoyan" for cruiser, "Che Gevara" for battleship,
"Mao Zei Dong" or "Lenin" for dreadnought. For lighter ships you may choose
nonpersonal names "Revoliutsioner" (Revolutionary), "Krasnogvardeets" (Red
Guardsman), "Stalinets" (Stalinist), or, for example, "Luddit" (Luddite).
Tradition 4. Famous people. Very often Soviet ships got names not after
revolutionary leaders, but after famous warlords, naval commanders and
scientists. In that case slight different system is used. Not only surname,
but also rank of the person is included into the ship's name. If we take Full
Thrust ESU classes, they should sound "Admiral Gorshkov", "Marshal
Voroshilov", "Marshal Zhukov". In the Soviet Union there was rater a big
scientific fleet, research ships of which were
called mostly after famous scientist. In GZG-universe ESU carriers are
obviously called after people, who stood at the beginning of the
spaceflights (the same way were some sci-ships in the USSR). So, in that
tradition the ships shouldn't have just surname, but also rank of the person.
"Kosmonavt Komarov" (Cosmonaut Komarov), "Akademik Koroliov", "Professor
Yangel". This way you can determine cruiser named after revolutionary Komarov
(which name would be just "Komarov"), from the carrier named after the
astronaut. If the person had no title or rank (like Tsiolkovsky), there should
be his first name instead: "Konstantin Tsiolkovsky". Tradition 5. Renown.
Since the middle of XIXth century in Russian navy there is a tradition to
"reincarnate" ships with admirable history. Several names have changed three
bearers so far. Those renowns are: "Merkuriy" (Merkurius). Brig, which
defeated in 1827 two heavy Turkish frigates. Later there was a light cruiser
with the same name. "Azov". Russian battleship renowned at the sea battle of
Navarin in 1829. In the end of the XIX century, there was raider (cruiser)
with the same name. "Avrora". (Aurora). Corvette of the Baltic Fleet, took
part in the
Crimean war against English and in 1862\63 journey to USA, to uphold
Notherns in the American civil war. Light cruiser with the same name, built in
about 1897, survived terrible Tsushima sea battle, took part in the WWI, and
became the leading force of the October revolution. Now, it's one of the
symbols of the Revolution, and "honorable olderman" (ship number 001) of the
Navy. "Variag" (Viking). Cruiser which in 1904 engaged suicidal battle against
Japanese navy, gloriously fought till the last cannon, drowned, but didn't
surrender. Battlesong "Our Variag isn't going to surrender" became unofficial
anthem of Soviet and modern Russian navies. There was a missile battlecruiser
with the same name. And nonfinished big nuclear powered air carrier, scrapped
in 1993, also supposed to be called "Variag". "Slava" (Renown). WW1 battleship
(yes, we also had one with that name). Delayed advancing German fleet fighting
all alone, in 1916 in the Baltic Sea. Flagship of Soviet heavy fleet (former
"Molotov") was renamed into "Slava" in 1957, when Molotov tried to coup
Khrushchev, and was expelled from the leadership. "Kirov". Cruiser of the
Baltic fleet, which took huge part of defence of Leningrad during WW2. Big
nuclear powered battlecruiser (flagship of late Soviet Baltic fleet) has the
same name. So, for game purposes you may choose any heroic episode of Russian,
Chinese, Polish or Corean navies (or imagine any from the history of ESU
spaceforces) and transfer any name from there. Minor traditions. Sometimes
ships were called because of certain anniversary or political event. "50 let
Octyabria" (50 years of October revolution). Sometimes they are called after
sponsors. "Leninsky Komsomol" (Leninist Young Communist League, traditional
sponsor of Soviet Navy) or "Severstal" ("Nothern Steel", an industrial
concern, which builds submarines). Traditionally auxiliary transports are
called after big Russian rivers (Volga, Lena, Volkhov, Dnepr, Don). Altered
tradition. Battles. In "Fleet book one" there are three ships, which are
completely out from MODERN tradition, but they could fit, into
TSARIST tradition, never used in post-revolution times, but rather
possible. I mean names "Manchuria", "Rostov", "Petrograd". There is NO city
Petrograd, but there was a victorious and glorious defense of it (from
bolshevist side, surely) during the Russian Civil war. And there was
victorious battle for Rostov during WW2, and there were successful battle for
Manchuria where Soviets were against Japanese in 1945 and there was a
"Manchurian victory" of the Chinese People's (Red) Army during the Chinese
Civil war in late 1940s. So, I would suggest name capital ships after big
victories of different communist armies. I hope these short principles will
help you to get more fun from fighting on the side (or against) of glorious
Peoples Military Space Fleet, which brings liberation to the working class of
all the nations
of Human-kind.

Yours,

From: Indy Kochte <kochte@s...>

Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 13:28:43 -0400

Subject: Re: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

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Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Тимофей Потапенко
<potapenkoteo@mail.ru> wrote:

> In the Name of Socialism.

Very interesting, Tengel. Thanks! I'm always struggling when trying to come up
with ship names for the ESU fleets.

Given that the ESU is more or less an amalgamation of Russia and China, how do
you think the Chinese influence would be best presented in ship naming
conventions? Follow what you outlined in your post?

Mk

From: Doug Evans <devans@n...>

Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:05:08 -0500

Subject: Re: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

Ochen privyet! (Forgive the poor transliteration.)

An excellent and useful treatise, Timophey. Of course, the various traditions
have some tendency to walk over each other, especially "Tradition 5. Renown.
Since the middle of XIXth century in Russian navy there is a tradition to
"reincarnate" ships with admirable history." In the US, there's a very strong
tradition of battleships named after states of the US, except Kearsarge, and
there's the Alaska, which wasn't a battleship, though maybe a shot at a BC.

Subs are now big ships, and what were once battleships and cruisers, boomers
and attack subs.

We tend to name carriers after famous personages (Ronald Reagan, *shudder*),
but there will probably always be an Enterprise, and I can always hope to see
Saratoga, or Wasp returned to full carrier status. LHD just doesn't seem to do
it, however important they are.

As a further complication, the US even had/has ships named after
multiple people. The Sullivans, the McCain...

The_Beast

From: Indy Kochte <kochte@s...>

Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 19:34:41 -0400

Subject: Re: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

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> Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Doug Evans <devans@nebraska.edu> wrote:

> [...]

I'm rather partial to some of the names the English have given their ships.
:-)  Full of boldness, character, verve and whatnot. And since the NAC
is
primarily English-led, I figure most of their vessels will follow those
traditions, with a sprinkling of US and Canadian naming conventions mixed in
for good measure. :-)

Mk

From: VinsFullThrust@a...

Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 21:35:19 EDT

Subject: Re: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

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have always used a combination Russian and Chinese naming of my ESU forces.
With the first generations miniatures being 75 Russian and the newer designs
reflecting a 75% more Chinese feel to the naming.

VRJ

In a message dated 4/4/2008 6:56:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> indy.kochte@gmail.com writes:

In the Name of Socialism.
[...]
I hope these short principles will help you to get more fun from fighting on
the side (or against) of glorious Peoples Military Space Fleet, which brings
liberation to the working class  of all the nations of Human-kind.

Very interesting, Tengel. Thanks! I'm always struggling when trying to come up
with ship names for the ESU fleets.

Given that the ESU is more or less an amalgamation of Russia and China, how do
you think the Chinese influence would be best presented in ship naming
conventions? Follow what you outlined in your post?

Mk

**************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000
016)

From: Jerry Han <jhan@w...>

Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 00:42:39 -0400

Subject: Re: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

> Indy wrote:

What Canadian naming convention?  (8-)

Canadian warships follow very closely to British practice, which is
understandable, given that the Royal Canadian Navy only really split from the
Royal Navy just before World War I. Throw in the fact that Canada has only
ever had a handful of capital ships in her history, which were
ex-British
carriers, and, odds are with the exception of city names, a ship name in the
Royal Navy could appear in the Royal Canadian Navy and vice versa.

Currently, with the exception of some support/training ships, every
active duty ship in the Canadian Navy is either named after a Canadian city,
or, is one of the three 'Tribal' destroyers we have left. (Not the WWII ones,
these are c. 1970 original build ASW ships converted to be
AAW / Task Force leaders.)

JGH

From: Evyn MacDude <infojunky@c...>

Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 00:07:25 -0700

Subject: Re: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

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> On Apr04 08, at 12:05, Doug Evans wrote:

> We tend to name carriers after famous personages (Ronald Reagan,

Hum... Now that brings up memories... Sitting on Anchor detail aboard the
Constellation (CV 63 and a half) 20 some odd years ago trying to name all the
carriers in the USN (Note this was after 2 weeks in Subic Bay) and
we came up with CVN-71 Richard Milhouse Nixon, we went so far as
attempting to make letterhead for our NEW carrier. Our Booter-Brown-Bar
was not amused....

From: Timophey (Tengel) Potapenko <potapenkoteo@m...>

Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:18:21 +0400

Subject: Re: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

> Given that the ESU is more or less an amalgamation of Russia and

I don't know much about Chinese navy. Those names, you can find in the English
and Russian books about Chinese navy, they are not real names of the real
ships. They are names, which NATO specialists gave to detrmine them somehow,
'cause Chinese keep them in secret.

But Chinese People's Navy was started by Soviet spesialists in Stalinist time
(they didn't have any warsips or navies of there own to that time),
and, as far as I know, they follow Soviet-stalinist naval tradition.

Also, in GZG-universe it's written pretty clear, that ESU-space fleet is
mostly under Russian, not Chinese influence. So, I use the prinsiples I
outlined. But for Chinese ships, I tend to use Chinese words. E g: "Hun Tibet"
(Red Tibet), "T'hen Hong Kong" (Communist Hong Kong), "Marshal Pan Dah Huay"
(he was a famous military leader of there Civil
War, so, it's a good name for "Voroshilov"-class cruiser), "Tunchi Chou
En Lai" (Comrade Chou En Lai, he was a high-ranked revolutionary, not a
bad candidate to call a battlecruiser after). And so on. Use Chinese leaders,
Chinese territories, Chinese revolutionary events, Chinese vicntories of the
past and the future. Don't forget, by the way, about Corean, Mongolese,
Polish, Chekh, and so on, 'cause these nations are also represented in ESU
Navy (Soviet Navy kept several sips with Ukranian language names).

From: Alan and Carmel Brain <aebrain@w...>

Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 21:01:36 +1100

Subject: Re: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

> Evyn MacDude wrote:

after WW II. He was doing well, until asked what US Carriers were named after.
He immediately said "Insects".

From: Phillip Atcliffe <Phillip.Atcliffe@u...>

Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 17:37:43 +0100

Subject: Re: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

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> ???? ????????? wrote:
(Red Tibet), "T'hen Hong Kong" (Communist Hong Kong), "Marshal Pan Dah Huay"
(he was a famous military leader of there Civil War, so, it's a
good name for "Voroshilov"-class cruiser), "Tunchi Chou En Lai" (Comrade
Chou En Lai, he was a high-ranked revolutionary, not a bad candidate to
call a battlecruiser after).
> [quoted text omitted]
Well, if you're going to use Communist ship-naming conventions, there'll

just /have/ to be an entire class named "The East Is Red" and only
distinguished by their hull numbers... :-D

Phil, who always wanted to take a trip on TEIR #33 after seeing it in a
TV documentary... ;-)

From: Timophey (Tengel) Potapenko <potapenkoteo@m...>

Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:52:28 +0400

Subject: Re: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

> >> Given that the ESU is more or less an amalgamation of Russia and
(Comrade Chou En Lai, he was a high-ranked revolutionary, not a bad
candidate to call a battlecruiser after).
> >

Well, you are right in general. Neither in Russian, nor in Chinese
modern navies words like "Kiev-class carrier" doesn't make any sence.
Classes there are marked just numbers. Navies say "660th project" and it might
mean an attack submarine, while "671th project" might be a missile cutter. And
yes, even biggest subs normally have no names in Russian Navy, and ships
lighter than destroyers has also normally got only numbers. So is in China.

But it's far not interesting for game purpose. Besides numbers, there ARE also
names. And I would suppose, that if navy (space navy) had more significance,
than ground force, system would change. Even for propaganda purpose it's much
better to write about victories of ships with loud and proud names, than with
numbers. And it's also good for psychological climate onboard, when crewmen
refer themselve to a common name, than to just a number.

From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@e...>

Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 09:44:47 -0700

Subject: Re: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

> Zoe Brain wrote:

I trust the chief was promptly up-checked. He'd have been in more
trouble if he'd given that answer in the 80s or 90s, the board might have
thought he was being critical of the new CV naming scheme: politicians.

From: Mike Hillsgrove <mikeah@c...>

Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 22:51:07 -0400

Subject: Re: [GZG] ESU ships names (Look from the Russian side)

> He'd have been in more trouble if he'd given that answer in the 80s

naming scheme: politicians.

Insects vs politicians, interesting. But then, aren't they nearly the same
thing? No offense meant to any insects out there.