[GZG] C-IED/COIN in SGII/DSII

8 posts ยท Sep 9 2010 to Sep 10 2010

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 07:56:43 +0430

Subject: [GZG] C-IED/COIN in SGII/DSII

I'm doodling here, so here goes nothing...

Presumptions: No nanotech "magic wands", technology levels roughly equivalent
to Drake's Hammer's Slammers, Jerry Pournelle's CoDo series, and similiar
novels. Volume matters when shipping across space, mass relatively less so.
All colonies will have widespread light industrial capacity, frequently in
extremely small packages, because initial colonization pattern includes
dropping folks near easily extracted resources. That doesn't mean they will
have rocket fuel or other exotic substances, but they will have precision
machining and fuel, as well as relatively abundant precursor
chemicals.  Space travel is only used for high-value goods, basic bulk
necessities must be manufactured on each planet.

IED challenges in SG/DS

1: "Sniffers" -- vapor analysis which detects traces of explosive.
This is dangerous for the insurgent in several ways. Depending on the size of
the unit, this can protect patrols from direct attack and be
used to discover caches of explosives.  Problems - false positives,
won't detect gunpowder (must be set to ignore any propellant used in the
weapons of the troops using it), issues screening out nitrate fertilizer.
Built into a drone, this can give you a mine detection dog that doesn't get
tired, isn't bothered by heat, and can move faster than human walking speed
for the length of a patrol. 2. If Thermals are down to the size of goggles,
and image analysis software is far more powerful and accurate, spotting IEDs
is going to be significantly easier. Camoflage is going to be much more
necessary and hence they are going to be more time consuming to emplace. 3:
Concentration of chemical industry. Fertilizer production is not something
that is going to be spread out all over the planet, but primarily concentrated
in areas easily accessible to major agricultural areas. Smuggling is going to
relatively difficult, because presuming you are talking about an invadar
attempting to take the whole planet, there is no "safe haven" in a Pakistan
equivalent where you can load up some donkeys and cross a mountain pass with a
bunch of weapons.  At least on younger/smaller colonies, if there's a
second, foreign, colony it will presumably be relatively distant and with
underdeveloped transportation network (cf. Spanish colonies, which at least
one book claims tended to be so badly connected it was actually cheaper to
ship something to Spain then ship it back to the other colonies than to ship
directly from one to the other)
4: Should be plenty of non-nitrate fertilzer, or fertilizer which is
not a useful precursor. For instance, Urea is legal in Afghanistan because
turning it into explosives requires bulk quantities of nitric acid. Ammonium
Nitrate is generally CAN, which requires some processing, but that's illegal
because it only requires minimal processing. Of course, it's produced in
quantity in Pakistan and smuggled in, but that would not be an option if there
are only three
fertilizer plants on the planet, all surrounded by counter-insurgent
troops. 5: Grav vehicles have a physical seperation from the ground, so they
are less vulnerable to blast damage. Any wheeled or tracked vehicles are
likely to built mine resistant unless sniffers are so accurate as to make
underbelly explosives completely ineffective. Not sure it is even
theoretically possible to build a mine resistant GEV, since they have to have
exposed fans and skirts. I suppose you can build in corrugations in the hull
to stiffen it, and make the skirt and fan portions so that they are easy to
replace. But recovering a GEV or a GRAV vehicle presents some significant
challenges of its own. They can't be towed, they will always require a
'lowboy' of some sort.

IED trends 1: Passive electronic sensors are primary means of activation.
Command wire is dangerous, radio controlled can be jammed too easily, pressure
plates are too detectable. Widespread light manufacturing capability means
ability to make relatively simple electronic devices will be more widespread.
2: Simple blast IEDs will be limited -- need massive ones for a solid
kill and again, sniffers make them difficult to use. 3: The precision
machining capacity for EFP disks will be far more widespread. You really do
need a better grade of explosive than can be done with fertilizer and diesel
fuel, ability to produce explosives that are of high quality and in which the
blast wave propagates evenly is a question for discussion. But if it's
possible, this will be preferred technique. You can park them 80 meters off
the road and
shoot them off, almost a one-shot HKP.  Anti-personnel method of
choice, again, to beat 'sniffers' is going to be DFC/DFFC (aka
grapeshot). These can use HME (Home Made Explosives) that are fertilizer
based.
4:  If I have to support an insurgency by loading a limited-volume
spaceship and using it to run a blockade, I'm going to pack it full of things
that give me maximum bang for volume. This means military
grade explosives, blasting caps, anti-tank weapons, and ammunition.
Not pallets of fertilizer bags. You're getting a data chip with the
specifications for EFP plates and assembly, and specs for some electronic
sensors for activation. The rest is on you.

Wildcards: Science fictional interrogation techniques: If accurate lie
detectors are possible in a 'hasty' situation, or safe and reliable drug
interrogation exists (see David Drake's short story about the interrogator,
can't recall title, I'm sure someone else can) insurgency is pointless, making
IEDs is pointless, and you're completely unless you have tanks to take the
other guy's tanks in a
head-on fight.  Insurgency requires deception.  If I can dope up a
random local and find out where all the IEDs near his village are, who the
insurgents are, and who their relatives and supporters are, it's Game Over.
Nationalism: The Ground Zero Games universe seems to presuppose the death of
the concept of nationalism. I know it's an ingrained part of a modern mindset,
but it is not fundamental to human nature. If
changing one set of off-world tax collectors for another which
actually provides the promised protection in return for taxes doesn't bother
most people, an insurgency would never get a whole lot of traction in the
first place. Many of the cultural and linguistic issues can be settled with
the assumption that someone assigned to
work on a Francophone colony would have the finest French-translation
software money can buy in his earpiece, and 'sleep learning tapes' that
implant a deep knowledge of the cultural mores and sensitivites of the
subjects.:) So that's a cultural question which would have to be answered
before we consider the technical details. Civil Rights: If I can dope up
random locals and squeeze them dry, is it likely that I will be permitted to
do so? I'm betting yes, because
media will be far less immediate (unless you assume non-ship FTL
communications, which changes the game a great deal), and because honestly,
most people could care less about stuff happening on the other side of the our
planet when it's the only one we have, they aren't going to care about stuff
that happened six months ago on someone else's planet.

From: Michael Brown <mwbrown@s...>

Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 22:11:28 -0600

Subject: Re: [GZG] C-IED/COIN in SGII/DSII

Thanks! I've been wondering where you have been hiding.

Michael Brown mwsaber6@msn.com

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Atkinson" <johnmatkinson@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 9:26 PM
To: <gzg-l@mail.csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [GZG] C-IED/COIN in SGII/DSII

> I'm doodling here, so here goes nothing. . .

From: Doug Evans <devans@n...>

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 06:54:21 -0500

Subject: Re: [GZG] C-IED/COIN in SGII/DSII

Definitely John; heck of a lot of 'nothing'. Even has this ol' vacchead's
interest.

Take care!

The_Beast

Michael Brown wrote on 09/08/2010 11:11:28 PM:

> Thanks! I've been wondering where you have been hiding.

From: Mike Stanczyk <stanczyk@p...>

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 11:34:11 -0600 (MDT)

Subject: Re: [GZG] C-IED/COIN in SGII/DSII

> On Thu, 9 Sep 2010, John Atkinson wrote:

> I'm doodling here, so here goes nothing. . .

So no Star Trek replicators. Got it. Are your machine tools small
enough so they can be in a home?   Are all the tools capable of making
the parts for a submachine gun in a factory or colonists have desktop CNC
machines?

> 4: If I have to support an insurgency by loading a limited-volume

Have you considered the landing ability of spaceships or their support craft?
How constrained the landing area is will determine smuggling's effectiveness.
In Hammers Slammers spaceships can land in many back woods areas. In the Lt.
Leary series, which I'm only in the first book so YMMV, space ships can only
land in large bodies of water. The government can stop the SS Big Bang in one
but not in another.

Now that I think about it, I don't think anyone has explored making IED
devices out of the power sources available in most science fiction
backgrounds. If you have an incredibly dense power source like a lightsaber
battery or mini fusion plants, can you make them fail catastrophicly enough to
be a useful IED? I don't think you can make IEDs from Hammer's Slammers
powergun ammunition in that universe but if an R2 unit can roll up to you and
then overload its powerpack and explode? Ugly.

> Wildcards:

"The Interrogation Team" might be the one you mean. I can't find it in any of
the free online ebook depositories so you can check it and be sure. "The
Interrogation Team" is reprinted in the Complete Hammers Slammers Vol. 1 but
that's not online that I can link to. (I got my copy via webscription.net)

> traction in the first place. Many of the cultural and linguistic

Well, that depends on if you get your tapes from Rosetta Stone or OCP's
Language Learning division:
http://www.sciflicks.com/robocop_2/facts.html
Getting a language tape with something like Directive 278 could happen.
;-)

From: Roger Burton West <roger@f...>

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 18:41:05 +0100

Subject: Re: [GZG] C-IED/COIN in SGII/DSII

> On Thu, Sep 09, 2010 at 11:34:11AM -0600, Mike Stanczyk wrote:

Depends entirely on the tech. Most batteries aren't capable of dumping
their entire energy capacity in a few seconds - there's no need for it,
and it makes the design harder. Now, if it's a battery that powers a laser
weapon or something like that, cracking it may well be Bad News...

R

From: Ken Hall <khall39@y...>

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 18:08:54 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: [GZG] C-IED/COIN in SGII/DSII

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Best, Ken

> --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Roger Burton West <roger@firedrake.org> wrote:

From: Roger Burton West <roger@firedrake.org>
Subject: Re: [GZG] C-IED/COIN in SGII/DSII
To: gzg-l@mail.csua.berkeley.edu
Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 1:41 PM

> On Thu, Sep 09, 2010 at 11:34:11AM -0600, Mike Stanczyk wrote:

Depends entirely on the tech. Most batteries aren't capable of dumping
their entire energy capacity in a few seconds - there's no need for it,
and it makes the design harder. Now, if it's a battery that powers a laser
weapon or something like that, cracking it may well be Bad News...

R

From: Mike Stanczyk <stanczyk@p...>

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:12:23 -0600 (MDT)

Subject: Re: [GZG] C-IED/COIN in SGII/DSII

> --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Roger Burton West <roger@firedrake.org> wrote:

Yep.  But have you seen some of the charge/discharge rates on upcoming
battery tech? Scary.

> On Thu, 9 Sep 2010, Ken Hall wrote:

I was thinking more of Larry Niven's molecular-distortion battery:
"I saw the white flash of a molecular-distortion battery rupturing among
the explosions, a big one near full charge. Not many near that would survive."

From: Samuel Penn <sam@b...>

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:13:00 +0100

Subject: Re: [GZG] C-IED/COIN in SGII/DSII

> On Thursday 09 September 2010 04:26:43 John Atkinson wrote:

Any particular reason? Mass is the most important factor in reality.