GZG 25mm Series in 1/300

I've been converted to Dirtside but I want to use the same kit as my SG II
troops.   I noted in the GZG release sheets that the 25mm series were
being
made in 1/300.

Any got any idea what the recent progress is on these? I'm specifically
looking for info on the Paladin and Phalanx, which in my update sheets had a
Nov release date. Thanks

Date sent:  4-DEC-1996 16:51:26

> I've been converted to Dirtside but I want to use the same kit as my SG

> Any got any idea what the recent progress is on these ? I'm

> Stuart.

The pre production Phalanx and Paladin were on display at Leeds last weekend.
They should be available in full production imminently. Very nice they are
too. They are significantly larger than the CMD designs, more in keeping with
GW 'Epic'.

Jon is also planning on doing infantry as well as the vehicles.

I also picked up the last of the new FSE destroyers. The 'wings' have been cut
down to make the design sleeker, more in keeping with the larger ships.

Date sent:  6-DEC-1996 08:54:50

> I've been playing DS for some time...now I just picked up SGII. Looks

I'm not sure how much 15mm stuff GZG is planning, but they currently only have
two types, NAC marines and ESW Naval Infantry. Each pack is an 8 man squad.

It would appear that Jon is too busy with 25mm and 1:300 to do too many 15mm
items and the 15mm may well be phased out.

JMT's first products were 15mm resin models. As time progressed, he has found
that the demand for 15mm scale has tailed off almost completely, even though
we produced a couple of packs of 15mm figures (based on the 25mm NAC and ESU
figs) about 18 months ago. I believe even these are no longer in

production (I don't think they've ever been available in the US). The 15mm
vehicles certainly aren't. Its the old story "there's no market for it". If
enough people call on Jon to produce stuff in 15mm
he _might_ change his mind....

I've been playing DS for some time...now I just picked up SGII. Looks great!
In the basing section, a picture shows 15mm & 25mm figures and credits them
the GZG. As a MilHist Gamer with much terrain in 15mm, this oviously caught my
eye. Does GZG also make a 15mm line?

> At 08:58 AM 06/12/96 +0000, you wrote:

> It would appear that Jon is too busy with 25mm and 1:300 to do too many

As a viable alternative you might want to check out the "Heavy Gear" miniature
line from Ral Partha. The have some very good looking infantry
models in 1/87th (HO) scale, including recon troops on motorcycles.
Overall the quality is very good as is the detail.

> From: M.J.Elliott@uk22p.bull.co.uk
The 15mm
> vehicles certainly aren't. Its the old story "there's no market for

I gave up on 25mm for anything but RPGs several years ago. Members of my

gaming group even has custom sculpted and cast early WW2 Poles, Slovaks,

etc., in 15mm 'cos we're not too into microarmor.

So, 15mm. Please.

> On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Adam Delafield wrote:

> It would appear that Jon is too busy with 25mm and 1:300 to do too

That's a pity. I do consider buying 15mm SF minis for platoon/skirmish
games; I'll never (well, as long as my eyes don't get too weak... but
I doubt that - they're bad enough already) buy 25mm or bigger.

Of course, in a weak moment I promised myself not to get into SF skirmishing
until I'd painted my historical and fantasy lead...

> At 08:58 AM 12/6/96 +0000, you wrote:

> It would appear that Jon is too busy with 25mm and 1:300 to do too many

That's unfortunate. I have quite a collection of 15mm figures (over 100 old
Traveller figs and about 150 from an old Grenadier 15mm line) but I'm sadly
lacking vehicles. I was hoping GZG would fill the void. I'm afraid, however,
that I have far too much 25mm SF and so I'm not interested in GZG's offerings
in that range.

I would have thought that 15mm SF would be a good growth area, by cultivating
the SF fan looking for some serious wargaming. There's a reason that most
modern and WWII gaming is done in 20mm; 25mm is just too big for the ranges of
the weapons involved. 15mm SF maybe a small market right now, but EVERYONE
does 25mm SF and the competition is fierce. My feeling is that
SG2 CRIES for 15mm--not the 28mm that's now in vogue--as does Striker
and Striker 2.

I was hoping GZG would fill the 15mm niche. Guess I gotta keep looking...

> At 11:00 AM 12/6/96 +0200, you wrote:

> found that the demand for 15mm scale has tailed off almost completely,

Guess I was wrong about 15mm being a "growth market." Still, two packs of figs
are hardly enough to get things going. I certainly wouldn't dive into 15mm SF
right now if I only had 2 packs to choose from, and them in danger of being
orphaned.

Of course 28mm looks better at a con than 15mm. This is, of course, the age of
style over substance. 15mm is a more suitable wargaming scale, particularly
when you have more than 20 figures per side.

This subject heading should be switched to "We want 15mm SGII figs!"

When I'm playing SGII on my 4'x6' table, I feel as though the game is missing
a key element: maneuver. The units of troopers get suppressed too easily and
the game bogs down from there. This makes the time delay for battalion or
regimental support fire ridiculous (we've never had a game last more than two
turns). Eight 25mm (or 28mm) grunts per unit on one inch bases take up alot of
table space (I don't like SGII being played like 40K: I line up all of my guys
on this side vs. your lined up guys on the other side. This is SF not
ancients!) The 15mm scale is perfect for SGII, heck, we're even thinking about
playing it in 6mm. This would definitely add some distance between friendly
units, and make the game have a more fluid feel.

Over here in the US we don't have any descent 15mm SF stuff (yeah, those new
Heavy Gear infantry are cool, but one side has regular infantry and heavy
weapon troopers (good) while the other side has motorcycles and snipers???(not
so good)).

Mike and Jon: We want 15mm! (and no FT3, but a supplement like "A Few More
Thrusts!"). :)  If Jon is busy w/ 25mm and 1/300th stuff, I would rather
see the 25mm stuff take a back seat since there is enough "official" figs out
there to play with if you prefer that scale, but, as somebody mentioned
earlier, there seems to be a big gap in 15mm SF availability, and I think SGII
plays better in 15mm anyway.

Nag

I whole heartedly agree with Nag's suggestion about doing SGII in 15mm. I've
been playing it with Quality Castings 15mm WWII figures
(Germans/Brits) and using Terrain Maker for the layout.  Boy does it
make a difference. You can do some pretty large engagements and it just Feels
right. I do own some GZG 25mm NAC and NSL and like the figures very much
(though I think that they are a little stiff). I have played with them (25mm)
on a 4x6 and was did have flashbacks to old WH40K, this is not a good thing! I
really think that SG II is a squad level game, not a true skirmish level game.
Because of this it is not all that important to have big and beautiful figures
on the battlefield; because in SGII as in war men get killed all to easily.

BTW SGII works really well for WWII combat. The only problem is the squads are
much bigger, especialy for the Americans. But it still works well.

Also I would like to ring in against a new version of FT. In a gaming industry
where companies think that game support means changing the rules on you every
year or so, instead of futhering thier storylines or adding
background, GZG with FT/DSII and now SGII has been a welcome change.  I
would hate to see FT end up like so many other games. That said, I would like
to see more game support in general, a sourcebook with more Fleets,
for FT and maybe some errata to fix the qurky parts or FT.   I would
also like to see more unit organizations and offical vehical stats or DSII. As
for SGII I would like to see greater unit detail, and more senario seeds. If
Jon and GZG would concentrate on these areas I believe that that the family of
GZG games would find many new converts. To illustrate this I will paraphrase
one of my friends after a SGII game. We had 8 people playing, each with a
squad or two. We were also playing NSL vs NAC. He said, "Y'know I really like
this game, much more realistic than WH40K." I said, "I know." He said, as he
leafed through the rules," Is this all the organizations, is it going to be
supported?" I said, "I believe so." He said, " Well I'll wait to see before I
order one."

Later, Jnoll
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> From: Naggaroth@aol.com
This is SF
> not ancients!) The 15mm scale is perfect for SGII, heck, we're even