Guerilla wars (or continuance of armed conflict in other ways)

7 posts ยท Dec 31 2001 to Jan 1 2002

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 02:33:08 -0500

Subject: Guerilla wars (or continuance of armed conflict in other ways)

Although in general I agree with John's comments about outside support, I will
point out that this is not necessarily always the case.

It is quite conceivable that, knowing you have an enemy potentially about to
occupy your planet, you plant plenty of arms caches around. You then
distribute some of your population around the rougher regions. Bits of your
fleet goes to ground on the ocean bottoms, in hidden cave silos, on your gas
giant, etc. Hidden comsats are emplaced as asteroids, etc.

Now, this forms the basis for a guerilla war. This presumes that 1) your enemy
doesn't want to cook the planet (then there isn't much you can do) and 2) you
have a finite time until you run out of rebels, arms, and support. You may
have
support from in-system forces that make a
great effort to remain hidden. You may have a chance at pulling this off due
to the difficulty of garrisoning an entire planet. If you have
support from the remaining off-Earth colonies
(you might call this outside support, I'd actually call it inside support
since really it is part of the same force that is waging the guerilla war,
rather than a separate entity), then that's a good plus.

In general, it is very hard for a guerilla or revolutionary movement to work
without outside funding and arms. However, there are some situations where a
limited duration guerilla struggle are more than feasible (witness Alan's
suggestion on how the OUDF might best oppose the KV and how OUDF training
involves this as a core philosophy).

This requires preparation, and an effective enemy with enough willingness to
stick it out will probably overcome these strategems eventually. But in the
meanwhile, it can get very costly for him.

And I think if Earth was captured, if it wasn't utterly reduced, it would
still be a key planet to recover (partly due to the psychological impact,
partly due to the population on Earth, and partly due to the manufacturing
plants, universities, etc on Earth that are worth saving).

Now, if the KV have Humanicide in mind, then the UNSC better keep them the
heck away from Earth. Failing that, they must write their final will and
testament....

Oh, and John, in case you hadn't noticed: Modern Day Japan has an awful lot of
very reasonable and democratic people who put a very high value on human life.
There are undoubtedly small vestiges of the attitude of "the old days", but
they are nowhere near as
prevalent as one might fear. The average salary-
man is concerned with family stress, work stress, and trying to make a living
in a reeling economy. Manifest Destiny or Global Hegemony are well outside the
common consciousness today. I'd bet there are many Japanese that place a
higher value on human life (any human life, not just a Japanese one) than a
lot of people elsewhere. They've had a real close acquaintance with the
results of that philosophy. And besides, most kids nowadays in Japan are
interested in material goodies rather than philosophy. Globalization, the
ubiquity of English, the Internet, etc. are all having their
effect....

Tomb

From: Don M <dmaddox1@h...>

Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 03:00:52 -0600

Subject: Re: Guerilla wars (or continuance of armed conflict in other ways)

Now, if the KV have Humanicide in mind, then the UNSC better keep them the
heck away from Earth. Failing that, they must write their final will and
testament....

Or let our germs kill um.......I know it;s been

From: Bif Smith <bif@b...>

Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:10:47 -0000

Subject: Re: Guerilla wars (or continuance of armed conflict in other ways)

[quoted original message omitted]

From: Roger Burton West <roger@f...>

Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:29:36 +0000

Subject: Re: Guerilla wars (or continuance of armed conflict in other ways)

> On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 10:10:47AM -0000, Bif Smith wrote:

In order to answer that, I'd have to tell you where the K'V attacking Earth
got their information and parts of their technology, and there's a nice man
from UNBOSS at the door...

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:13:03 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Guerilla wars (or continuance of armed conflict in other ways)

> --- Don M <dmaddox1@hot.rr.com> wrote:

Depends on exactally what the K'V have in mind. Dealing with a home planet of
a hostile species with a couple billion inhabitants? I'd take as a given that
there is no way in Heaven or Hell that I could import enough troops to supress
them. If the Earth has what, 15 billion inhabitants (I know, I know, but I
just don't see us supporting that many more people with
rational living standards--and most people get violent
when their living standards get too bad. Which reduces the population back
down to a decent level.) The K'V will need what, maybe 15 million or so ground
troops? No WAY you are shipping that many men through space.

So I'd drop a dino-killer or ten on them--pound the
planet into a lifeless hulk.

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 16:54:23 -0500

Subject: Re: Guerilla wars (or continuance of armed conflict in other ways)

> Not to mention the fact that there are about 17 billion potential

Normally you figure a minimum occupying force at 1:100 (or better, 1:80) of
the population. That's a lot of KV. Of course, this ratio is based on humans
occupying other humans. If your model is more
along the lines of "for each act of sabotage/guerrilla attack/etc,
we'll turn our juveniles loose to feed in one village...and we don't care
whether that village did anything or not..." then your ratio may be different.

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 15:15:58 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Guerilla wars (or continuance of armed conflict in other ways)

> --- Laserlight <laserlight@quixnet.net> wrote:

> is based on humans occupying other humans. If your

Yes. It will be a LOT higher initially. As you exterminate the population it
will drop.

For details on the utter failure of this method to work, see WWII Yugoslavia.

If you're going to use terror to rule, you have to be willing to liquidate the
majority of the population quickly, before they have a chance to form
resistance groups.

Otherwise, you're far better off using the Mongol
method--use terror to induce a surrender, then grant
your new subjects liberty to do whatever they want so long as they don't
violate your basic laws.