Gauss Rifles

2 posts ยท Aug 28 2002 to Aug 29 2002

From: Tom B <kaladorn@g...>

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:09:46 -0400

Subject: Gauss Rifles

OO said:

[Tomb] Yes, sorry, I meant to say an 80% greater chance of brain
cancer. The odds are still fairly low, but an 80% increase is a statistically
significant increase. You and I are probably talking about the same study.

If you're worried about EM radiation causing brain cancer, then you
really shouldn't use those fancy helmet-mounted headsets and visor-
mounted HUDs :-)

[Tomb] Well, after having worked in wireless for a few years and seen
a number of friends come down with various cancers that aren't directly (yeah
right) attributable to the environment, I'll pass. Plus I'm suspecting the
amount of energy to squirt out a transmission to a sensitive receiver is quite
low. (The power required is
constantly dropping due to the ability to resolve things better -
sort out noise, etc). I'm not sure that your Gauss rifle will have
the luxury of such a low-power setting.

(Of course that'll leave you wide open to enemy laser dazzlers, and
you can't use the tac-data net without taking a break from the
fighting, but that's life <g>)

[Tomb] I thought I saw a materials-based solution to the lasing
threat that did not involve electromagnetic controlled polarization -
something that used a material that was reactive so it was a
materials property rather than something driven/controlled by a power
source.OTOH, I'm not sure it was ever truly viable and I can't
remember where I saw the reference (web/magazine/TV/?).

Flak said:

So someone (Army or individual) who takes the increased chance of a tumor or
something by using the equipment is *Supposed* to be more effective than
someone who doesn't. Being more effective than the enemy is a good thing,
because that limits their ability to put bullets into your body... and frankly
I like my odds vs EM radiation induced brain cancer a lot better than the odds
vs. flying lead.

[Tomb] I'm sure a lot of the veterans exposed to DU who have
manifested mysterious health problems might have a different perspective on
that general sentiment. It's easy when one is a health individual to sit back
and analyze the risk and say "yeah, that's okay I can live with it" and it's
another to actually have things go bad for you.

Besides, "Army studies (concoted lies) have shown that the risk of <whatever
it is that you're saying is harmful to it's user> is well within acceptable
parameters (because we decided we can bury the human cost after the war
anyway). Trust us, (you beguiled sheeple) we are not the lying, manipulative
warmongers that brought you Radiation tests on soldier, Agent Orange and the
Gulf War Syndrome, (but we're following in their footsteps by brining you Vets
from the
Kra'Vak wars home with brain seizures and short-term memory loss from
repeated magnetic fields scrambling their brains.  It's a non-risk
situation for us, because by the time the Truth comes out, it will be
decades from now and we'll just name some high-ranking guy from today
who died in the interim as the decision-maker to be the scapegoat.)

[Tomb] This is possible - and the attitude isn't even that
improbable.

But note that international scientific standards do advance and we do
learn things and set acceptable standards. Even the military changes -
they don't handle radioactives like they used to, nor
chemical/biological weapons. And their own internal workplace
regulations have changes for occupational health and safety reasons.

Yes, if all you ever dealt with was war-war-war, your perspective on
the risks is likely to be such that they are acceptable. A lot of soldiering
in the modern age (and I suspect in the GZGverse) is
peace/garrison/training/etc. and not a condition of all-out-war-win-
or-be-destroyed.

That tends to put a different perspective on threats. If your health care
systems are having to support a pile more guys in VA hospitals, etc. then
you've got a different concern. And the military has perhaps learned (at least
in the civilized world) that old crimes
come back to haunt you - look at the cleanup costs arising from the
Canadian bases in the Far North and the horrible stuff (PCBs, other crap) they
dumped their for years.

No one said being a soldier was the world's safest job. And things that offer
you a better chance to survive combat (if combat is a likely risk***) are
generally acceptable even if they come with some other long term risks (doubly
so if they appear when you are in or heading into combat and then the short
term threat is more of an issue than the long term one). However, if your
forces don't fight all that often or only a small proportion of them see
action at any time, then the long term risk (and associated costs) takes on
more weight. Especially when your government is paying for health care and
disability pensions and supporting spouses and children and paying life
insurance, etc. (which happens to varying degrees

From: Oerjan Ohlson <oerjan.ohlson@t...>

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:40:23 +0200

Subject: Re: Gauss Rifles

> TomB wrote:

> [Tomb] Yes, sorry, I meant to say an 80% greater chance of brain

Certainly.

(Oddly enough I can't find any web sites which give the brain cancer
incidence rate as a life-time risk - all I can find is the total number
of cases per year in the US and Canada, but that doesn't say very much unless
you also know the birth-rate, age distribution and total death rate per
age
group :-( (The *total* death rate is, of course, 100%!) This type of
"total numbers only" statistics always makes me suspicious, since it makes it
very easy to hide reasons for the increase of the total numbers which you
don't
want to mention - like population growth... I don't think this is the
case here, but as I said I can't find any web site which shows relevant
numbers
:-( )

> If you're worried about EM radiation causing brain cancer, then you

Brain cancers, or other types as well?

> Plus I'm suspecting the amount of energy to squirt out a transmission

Two of the recievers I'm talking about here are the human ears and -
particularly - eyes. They're not particularly sensitive, and they sure
as
hell can't interpret a squirt transmission :-/

> I'm not sure that your Gauss rifle will have

No, but on the other hand there's a very major difference between a more or
less constant, long-term exposure (eg. talking in a cell phone a lot for

several years) and a few high-level pulses (eg. firing short bursts of
rifle fire occasionally).

In addition the emissions from the Gauss rifle can be screened fairly
effectively. If you screen the emissions from your cell phone, you have no
connection :-/

> (Of course that'll leave you wide open to enemy laser dazzlers, and

A self-polarizing material which reverts to clear when the laser stops?
That'd be nice :-) Still doesn't solve your tac-net problems though -
the
human/tac-net interface can't use low-power squirt transmissions...

> OTOH, I'm not sure it was ever truly viable and I can't

> I'm sure a lot of the veterans exposed to DU who have

Trouble is, AFAIK there's still no solid proof that all those veterans
*were* exposed to DU. Some of them were appearently rear-echelon types
who didn't get anywhere close to the combat zones... so there's still a fairly
high chance that their troubles were caused by something else. Kuwait and
surrounding areas did have a bunch of other environmental problems (burning
oil wells, carcinogenic fuels etc) at the time, after all.

As an interesting side note, Sweden have had soldiers falling ill with similar
symptoms after returning from Kosovo and blaming it on "exposure to DU"... but
again they hadn't been in areas were DU munitions had been used, and when our
local greenies tried to argue that "but the use of DU increased the background
radiation" it was pointed out that the background
radiation in Kosovo's DU-infested areas is lower than the *natural*
background radiation in most of Sweden :-/ IIRC the Italian army had
similar cases too, and again they weren't able to find a significant
relationship between DU exposure and these illnesses.

But, as Flak Magnet said - if you get cancer, you have to live with the
consequences (and may die of them 20+ years down the line)... but still
you have a chance of living. If you're outclassed in combat because your
enemies have much more effective equipment than you do, your chances of
survival are considerably lower (and you'll most likely die now, rather
than in 20+ years). In the GZGverse, I'd say that your average grunt
does indeed run a significant risk of seeing combat... I certainly know which

option I'd prefer.

Regards,