In short, I liked it plotwise, characterwise (I hated Baltar, but was
intrigued with his twist), and space combat-wise. Only the last is
really relevant to this list, though.
I think the space combat was a cross between cinematic and vector. We
saw fighters yaw/pitch while keeping direction, but I didn't get a good
feel for how the fighters themselves made 180 degree changes of
movement - it seemed a bit too fast for a vector reversal. There are
clearly grav type forces available. I suspect PSB of linear/vector
turbo boosters +cinematic grav turning ability. The battlestar and
basea stars give little indication of combat speed - but IMO showed at
most thrust 1 or 2 in combat.
Primary armaments were slugs and missiles. I loved the Galactica's Point
defense barrage. Its what missile combat should look like in FT, IMO.
Galactica combat in general would be hard to model in FT. The
Battlestars and Base Stars would be mega-carriers of some kind (400
mass?) Vipers would be Heavy fighters (or extra-heavy 3-point fighters)
- you see them taking knocks and still surviving. Cylon fighters are
almost scoutship sized vehicles - 2 per "group" with special weapon
loads. Ships seem incapable of engaging fighters effectively, though
they do OK with missiles - when the defense grid is active/armed.
I'm not a big fan of the retractable landing bays. It seems like a purposeless
plot device, but it looked cool.
I liked Boomer's Raptor "scout" ship. It seems like what a scoutship should
be. Jumping in Galactica does not seem to be as hard on people
as in FT - preparations/calculations take a long time (many game
turns), but give little to no warning before jump.
One last complaint - it was a copout we only saw some of the 12 types
of human cylons by the end. Clearly they're keeping some/many
intentionally mysterious, so they can pull the "covert cylon plot" several
times if they reach series format, but just showing us several of the same
models we've already seen bugged me (except for
***spoiler****).
> In short, I liked it plotwise, characterwise (I hated Baltar, but was
You are supposed to hate Baltar... Granted, the original Baltar was much more
fun to loathe, but still...
> I think the space combat was a cross between cinematic and vector. We
An interesting point, is that it implies that you will want to point the
catapults the direction you want the fighters to go.
> Primary armaments were slugs and missiles. I loved the Galactica's
You might want to try StarFire for a better fit...
> Galactica combat in general would be hard to model in FT. The
I'd wait to see what happens when fighters try straffing a BattleStar or a
BaseShip...
> I'm not a big fan of the retractable landing bays. It seems like a
I suspect it is done for FTL, but it does seem a little corny...
> I liked Boomer's Raptor "scout" ship. It seems like what a scoutship
Don't worry, they'll make more models Cylons if they need to...
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 07:40:50AM -0500, Noam Izenberg wrote:
> I think the space combat was a cross between cinematic and vector. We
> feel for how the fighters themselves made 180 degree changes of
Are you familiar with the GURPS "hyperdynamic field" concept? Essentially it's
a sort of extradimensional "atmosphere" in space which
ships can catch with airfoil-type surfaces (suitably plated in Strange
Substances), allowing them to do aircraft-style manoeuvres (though
still without gravity).
If it's thin enough, it's a fairly good match for this style of movement...
**********************SPOILER*************************
> --- "Imre A. Szabo" <ias@sprintmail.com> wrote:
True, but this one at least had some real mental
issues, instead of being a two-dimensional badguy. I
did, however, take issue with the way they drilled the "By the way, he had sex
with a Cylon" Point every two minutes...
> Primary armaments were slugs and missiles. I loved the Galactica's
With all the energy available to the ship, why do they not have any heavy
direct energy weapons?
If Apollo could simulate a 50kt Nuke blast off of one coil hooked to the FTL
of "Colonial 1", how much power could the Galatica pump into a Particle
Cannon, or Electron Beam?
> > I'm not a big fan of the retractable landing bays. It seems like a
<continuity police>
Did they check the effects footage before releasing the show?
After retracting the bays for the first FTL jump... the FX shot showing the
jump clearly has the bays extended!
</continuity police>
Sorry, just ranting
> At 8:21 AM -0800 12/11/03, Brian B wrote:
Why, she's hot! I'd say he got damn lucky. Its not like she game him any
disease. His only mistake was letting her have access to the defense computer.
> --- Ryan Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com> wrote:
I'm not disputing any of that, I just felt it was a bit tiresome, and a bit
forced, like they didn't think we got the point.... yes, it's a plot device,
we know, get on with the story.....
Multiple replies, and now With Spoilers, so...
From: "Matt Tope" <mptope@omnihybrid.com>
> Even more importantly than thrust vector Vipers, and missile carrying
A theme tune does not stand out in my memory - they did play the old
Galactica theme music as part of a ceremony, which I thought was clever
and fitting. The space combat music - and sound - was minimal and
refreshing. Mostly drums beats that I recall in fighter engagements (reminded
me of the Hunt for Red October submarine combat music more than anything else.
There was some of the standard "whooshing" of passing ships, but far less than
anything on the screen to date short of "2001". I liked it allot.
From: "Imre A. Szabo" <ias@sprintmail.com>
> In short, I liked it plotwise, characterwise (I hated Baltar, but was
His character weak one way, strong another way, both of which grated on me. He
gave the picture of a somewhat insane genius, which is fine, but too much of
the base plot hinged on his fatal flaws, and his fatal
flaws were only fatal to others. I _did_ chuckle when he happened to be
right about something he had no clue about.
From Brian:
> I did, however, take issue with the way they drilled the
Ah, yes. This bugged me as well. Clearly this Baltar's extra flaky, but the
show plays as if "The Woman In the Red Dress" is every man's downfall.
> I think the space combat was a cross between cinematic and vector. We
_If_ fighters have cinematic components to their maneuver, that's not
necessary. We really didn't see enough for me to be sure, but I think some of
the large scale fighter maneuvers couldn't have been managed completely in
vector. Or else the grav PSB component of fighter movement is simply
preventing pilots and equipment from liquifying during 30 G vector maneuvers.
From Roger:
> Are you familiar with the GURPS "hyperdynamic field" concept?
This sounds like the "ethereal rudders" I remember reading about in
some of the early Star Wars books to explain the aircraft-like behavior
of those fighters. It's one of the reasons I've never had trouble accepting
cinematic movement systems.
From: "Stuart Ford" <stuart@forddata.com>
> Primary armaments were slugs and missiles. I loved the Galactica's
At several points, it was implied that fuel availability was an issue. I
conclude that power is not an unlimited commodity in this universe. It is
possible that what I called 'slugs' may have been "bolts" of energy, but I saw
no beam weapons. I don't have a problem with that convention, though.
> If Apollo could simulate a 50kt Nuke blast off of one coil hooked to
That's a broadcast signal of some kind - an EW/ECM burst if anything.
My PSB guess is that something like that requires a fraction of the
power of an energy _weapon_.
> <continuity police>
There's a gotcha!
> Ships seem incapable of engaging fighters effectively, though
Agreed. After seeing the show, I hope it gets picked up into a series. I've
been waiting for something good since Farscape (which helped cure my B5 blues)
got canned. Enterprise tries, but just doesn't do it for me.
> I'm not a big fan of the retractable landing bays. It seems like a
Yes, it was - though spindlier civilian ships didn't need to do any
battening down to jump. My biggest problem with the retracting is the
required void-space in the main hull for the connectors to withdraw
into. Seems like poor design for a 'battlestation with drives'.
> Don't worry, they'll make more models Cylons if they need to...
Exactly why we _should_ have seen more of the human designs. OTOH I did
like the rationale of the Cylons deciding to hunt down and destroy the last
humans. It was only a few sentences of dialog, but their logic gave them a
'human, but not quite' quality I found refreshing.
[quoted original message omitted]
> Multiple replies, and now With Spoilers, so...
I suspect the writers are trying to give him all the faults of the people who
originally designed the Cylons. His characterization is certainly not perfect,
but look at the pilot for the original Star Trek or B5, both of those required
time and effort to perfect the characterizations by the actors, and interplay
between the characters. BattleStar Galatica has real potential, if sometimes
annoying minor plot elements.
> > I did, however, take issue with the way they drilled the
What man hasn't fallen for at least one beautiful women who wasn't much more
trouble then she was worth??? Fortunately, it doesn't usually result in the
nuking of cities...
> > An interesting point, is that it implies that you will want to point
True, but you have the Raptor coasting to Caprica. So I suspect that what they
really want is cinematic vector movement... Whatever that is... Ah, I know.
It's the Hollywood Laws of Physics...
> > After retracting the bays for the first FTL jump... the FX shot
Yes you did. Well if this is the worst thing that happens to me this week,
it's going to be a good week! Now if only those streatwise girlscouts don't
beat me up again this week...
> >> I'm not a big fan of the retractable landing bays. It seems like a
Agreed about the void space. Maybe it's the Hollywood Laws of Volume...
> > Don't worry, they'll make more models Cylons if they need to...
Sure, it would be nice, but we don't have to try to keep the show on budget or
write the next several scripts. I agree about the Cylons dialog. They know
humans better then most humans...
For more on the Hollywood laws of physics:
http://www.open2.net/science/hollywood_science/ and
http://www.open2.net/hollywoodscience2/
Although they haven't done any space shows yet.
Chris Downes-Ward
[quoted original message omitted]
> --- "Imre A. Szabo" <ias@sprintmail.com> wrote:
Wow, I never even considered that angle - thanks for
mentioning it. That'll be interesting to bring up with a friend of mine who
was highly critical of the miniseries, as an old BSG purist.
His
> characterization is certainly not
Agreed. and again, it definitely made his character a
more believable villain than the flat cardboard-cutout
Baltar of the original.
> > Ah, yes. This bugged me as well. Clearly this
Again, let me reiterate, I had no problem with the concept of his seduction by
the cylon. What bothered me was the hamfisted way the kept beating us over the
head with it in every other scene, just to make sure we knew how important a
plot point it was.
> Brian B wrote:
[...]
> > > Ah, yes. This bugged me as well. Clearly this
Wait...Baltar was seduced by a Cylon in woman form??
;-)
Mk
SPOILER
> --- Indy <kochte@stsci.edu> wrote:
> Wait...Baltar was seduced by a Cylon in woman form??
Nothing gets past you, does it?
SPOILER
> --- Indy <kochte@stsci.edu> wrote:
Wait...Baltar was seduced by a Cylon in woman form??
;-)
Nothing gets past you, does it?
Sharp as a balling ball.......)
> What man hasn't fallen for at least one beautiful women who wasn't much
Um...*I* fell for a beautiful women who isn't much more trouble than she is
worth...but I suspect you mean "who IS much more trouble" etc... ;-)
> At 8:43 AM -0800 12/12/03, Brian B wrote:
I see him as less of a villain than the previous incarnation of Baltar. He
seems more like a man riding the tail of a tiger and doesn't know how to get
off. He, however, lacks the intestinal fortitude to jump off and take the
consequences like a man.
> > > Ah, yes. This bugged me as well. Clearly this
I thought they were just showing off the Victoria Secret Model eye candy.
> --- Ryan M Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com> wrote:
And that's the point that villifies him, at least in my eyes.
> >Again, let me reiterate, I had no problem with the
An as pretty as the candy was, it was damned annoying for someone trying to
take his SF seriously when they could have filled that air time with more
combat sequences or more germaine dialogue...
> At 9:28 AM -0800 12/12/03, Brian B wrote:
Oh granted, its just that hes not a calculatingly, evil villain (TM).
Like Senator Palpatine, Hitler, Bun-Bun, Bill Gates, etc.
> > I thought they were just showing off the Victoria
I've pretty much accepted that hot chicks (tm) and sci-fi are pretty
much here to stay. Look at any of the recent what ever movies or books.
There's always someone that is there to provide a bit of distraction. Imagine
a cover for the novelization of the current movie series. Jim Baen would have
a tall order to top with a cover like that.
Speaking of, did you guys see that Baen donated some several thousand books to
the Navy and the Enterprise in particular...(rather
appropriate ship for a bunch of sci-fi novels).
> At 3:01 PM -0500 12/12/03, Imre A. Szabo wrote:
Difference being that the latter thought he was selling out a bit of corporate
advantage and not to the Cylons. The former knew he was selling out to the
toaster people.
> >Again, let me reiterate, I had no problem with the
Was this the "why don't we make peace with the Cylons" crowd?
> --- "Imre A. Szabo" <ias@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> Well, the original BSG kept beating us over the head
If I can't choose "Neither," I'd have to concede your point.
> >> > Multiple replies, and now With Spoilers, so...
He's almost as bad as the orginal Baltar. The original Baltar sold out the
colonies except his own (according to the deal he made, but not the deal the
Cylons altered it to...). Why? Lust for power, uncontrolled ambition, status
(he would be the human leader under the Cylons), and greed. The new Baltar
sold out the defense network for sex, lust power, uncontrolled ambition,
status, and greed. The new Baltar is a bit more naive then the original (he
didn't realize he was dealing with the Cylons and assumed the laws he broke
wouldn't do anything worse then give unfair competition to a company).
> >Again, let me reiterate, I had no problem with the
Well, the original BSG kept beating us over the head with incompetent and
corrupt poloticians... Personal I'd rather be beat over the head by beautiful
Cyclon then Sire Yuri...