Full Thrust

For all those people wondering where the More Thrust books are at:

> From: John Fox <john_fox@ca.credence.com>

> Dear GeoHex:
I
> would really like to know if this is the case or should I start

I just organised our first Full Thrust game between my two sons.   Quite
good although in play the movements and weaponry give very much on the
"aircraft" model of space combat.    As I have previously noted,
although not on this list (!) I feel space combat "really" would be more like
old-sailing ship combat with gravity wells providing the effects of
"wind"
and the game being much more positional.   Full thrust is far more about
speed and the ability to turn to effectively bring weapons to bear - not
to mention guessing the move of your opponent

The "annoying" bit was my eldest son kept moving his ships to light speed
whenever he started losing.   He mostly died but took swaths of his
brother's ships with him.    Since we were playing with mostly Light
ships, mainly "escort" class with only one light cruiser on each side this
gave (for me) unsatisfying ends to the games where everyone got destroyed by a
FTL jump failure.

Is this a problem with Full Thrust for others - people using FTL failure
as a weapon?

Interested to hear back.

A+

> andrew evans wrote:

> I just organised our first Full Thrust game between my two sons.
Quite
> good although in play the movements and weaponry give very much on the

I've had people try this with everything from a one shot submunitions pack
ship to a full sized battlecruiser. If you know your opponent uses this
tactic, it can be easily defended against.

The new battlefleet: gothic rules by games workshop have some interesting
ideas with regard to movement. Some of the ships are designed with solar
sails, and they have three speeds which are dependant on their position
relative to the sunward edge of the table.

Hi Andrew. Since you asked on the FT list, I figure I'll post my reply.
^_^  (He originally sent this to the Epic ML, and I replied via e-mail.)

> At 04:12 PM 4/9/99 +0100, you wrote:
Quite
> good although in play the movements and weaponry give very much on the

Try vector movement. It changes things fairly dramatically, and doesn't have
too much of a learning curve (IMO, but then I'm an engineer...).

Anyway, the regular FT movement is called "cinematic" for a reason --
it's supposed to simulate what you see in the movies, say (oh, a random pick
^_-
) the Star Wars films.

> As I have previously noted I feel space

Gravity is far, far too weak a force to have an effect, unless you're talking
turns that take days. There is no "official" time scale in Full
Thrust, but various mathematically-inclined members of the FT mailing
list figured that, if 1 thrust is 1 G, turns are about 15 minutes long. (Don't
recall the distance 1" is, but they figured that, too.) Not much time for
gravity to have an effect, and sitting in a close pass trajectory for a planet
is likely to get you nailed.

Although, if you see a grander scheme of things, there is a set of pages out
there by Keith Watt, Solar Thrust, that drops FTL travel and uses thrust of
~0.01 G per point. Though you should also drop cinematic movement... I don't
have the URL handy, alas, but I'm sure someone can provide it.

> Full thrust is far more about speed and the ability to turn to

Tell that to people who have enemy ships get behind them! It's a fun place
to be.... ^_^  Besides, using single-arc "gunships" can fit a good
number of guns onto a small ship, and you've gotta be good to figure out where
you opponent'll go so you can get him in arc. The provided FT ships don't have
this problem... but also don't have that kind of concentration of firepower.

> The "annoying" bit was my eldest son kept moving his ships to light
[snip]
> Is this a problem with Full Thrust for others - people using FTL

Mainly it gets houseruled out -- the usual reason given is that FTL
travel is possible only far outside a system, where combat is rare. (Gravity
gradients, or some such -- see Pournelle's CoDo future history Alderson
Drive.)

On the other hand, it can play a fairly large role in scenarios, Narn vs.
Centauri for a B5 example.  The FTL-out rules are generally one of those
"both players should agree before using" questions.

> Interested to hear back.

Hope this helps!

> I just organised our first Full Thrust game between my two sons.
Quite
> good although in play the movements and weaponry give very much on the

Outwitting your opponent (or being outwitted by him!) is very much a
feature of the game - you know (roughly) the envelope within which he
CAN manoeuvre, but never exactly WHAT he will do until he does it! Using the
alternative Vector movement system (either the official version in the Fleet
Book vol.1, or one of the various variants that are around on the net) will
give a VERY different feel to the game, utterly unlike either
wet-navy or air games - and with that, factoring in simple gravity well
effects becomes very easy if you want to do it.
> The "annoying" bit was my eldest son kept moving his ships to light

This, like almost everything in the FT rules, is optional. If you find it is
being exploited, simply define the battle as taking place too deep
inside the FTL limit and ignore the FTL rules altogether - or else
simply
ignore the "damage to other ships" part, so an FTL-induced suicide is
just that! Never feel afraid to tailor the game to what YOU want to get out of
it, and that's [OFFICIAL]! <grin>
> Is this a problem with Full Thrust for others - people using FTL

It is a "munchkinisation" option that can cause trouble with some
players -
there has been a lot of discussion about it in the past on this list.
Amendments will probably be made in future editions/supplements,
including discussion of various other FTL rule options for the game. In the
meantime,
see above - if you don't like the way a rule works, omit or change it!
> Interested to hear back.