Full Thrust Campeigns: Big vs Small ships

2 posts ยท Mar 31 1997 to Apr 1 1997

From: Phillip E. Pournelle <pepourne@n...>

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 14:45:39 -0500

Subject: Full Thrust Campeigns: Big vs Small ships

Given the current discussions about Large Ships versus small and campeigns, we
need to examine this against the backdrop of how long the campeign is. One
player commented that if a destoyer squadron attacked a battleship, the
battleship would only have to be repaired while the destoyers had to be
replaced. At the hieght of WWII the United States was pumping out a victory
ship a week and a destroyer every two. However, Battleships and carriers took
much longer and cost a lot more. The infrastructure costs for a BB and CV
(i.e. Thrust efficiency cost) is proper and allows a DD squadron of equal
value to destroy a capital ship. The BB has some serious range advantages and
these need only a slight adjustment in the costs and mass issues for A and AA
batteries... Repairs to carriers in the Pacific were extraordinary and cost a
lot in a brief amount of time. Therefore, repair rules should obviously
benefit repairing an existing ship but only to a point. Additionally a ship
yard tooled for repair takes time to ramp up to construction and vice
versa...
Phil P.

From: Mikko Kurki-Suonio <maxxon@s...>

Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:12:49 -0500

Subject: Re: Full Thrust Campeigns: Big vs Small ships

> On Mon, 31 Mar 1997, Phillip E. Pournelle wrote:

> One player commented that if a destoyer squadron attacked a

I do have a name. It may be long and hard to spell, but it is my real name.

> At the hieght of WWII the United States was pumping out a victory

FT points system does not reflect this reality. Looking at Jane's, the Queen
Ellies cost roughly 3 million pounds a piece (displacement about 32000 tons)
and KGVs were around similar figures, while a Tribal class DD
cost about 467,000 pounds (displacing 1870 tons). 1400-tonnish DDs of
Isis, Gallant, Admiralty and Escapade classes cost around 300,000 pounds a
piece.

Thus one pound bought 0.01 tons of a BB but only about 0.004 tons of DD. Sure,
timewise the DDs come out first for a number of reasons, but what are the
points supposed to represent? Then we have shipyard sizes and blah blah
blah... this is not a simple issue.

And even the US had most shipyards big enough committed to building more
carriers, nevermind the cost.

> The infrastructure costs for a BB and

Can you show a single historical incident where DDs (any number of 'em)
operating alone sunk a contemporary capital ship at open sea?

Usually the saving grace of DDs was that capital ships had bigger fish to fry.