Hey all:
I've have a wonderful grinchy idea...
Lately I've been flowing up on Stargate SG-1 quite a bit. The episode
"Thor's Chariot" where the Goa'uld attack Cimmeria, a planet populated by
ancestors of the Norse by the Asgard, gave me a great Idea for a FMA scenario:
A warband of cimmerian "vikings" run into a patrol of Jaffa under
the flag of the system lord Heru-ur (i.e. Horus). I've got plenty of
Eureka's "Horus" headed sci-fi Egyptians, and lots of Foundry vikings
for the job. All I need now is to come up with the rules for Goa'uld weaponry,
namely the infamous staff weapon.
Anyone want to help hammer this thing out?
Later,
Hmmm, kind of a cross of a Gauss Rifle and HAMR for effects. That is if I am
thinking straight. I may need to get SG-1 through NetFlix and watch
them all.
Michael Brown
[quoted original message omitted]
> At 9:39 PM -0500 10/22/03, Mark A. Siefert wrote:
They don't do that any more though. They work for a living, not fight, so I
don't expect they'd be up to the fight. Besides, they'd rather sit around and
laugh at the Ettins about to be struck down by Thor's Hammer....
> Anyone want to help hammer this thing out?
Now, a bunch of US SF guys with M249s, FN-P90s and other nastiness
sure seem to be able to work over the snake heads. I especially like
the drone with laser painting Jaa-fa positions until thor show's up
to wack their snake heads off. I love those little grey guys!
> Mark A. Siefert wrote:
> Hey all:
Relatively low firepower, but high impact? It doesn't seem to have a very high
ROF, but it does hit hard.
Staff weapons don't seem to be very accurate. They're best used up close or
in massed fire. They appear to be the sci-fi equivalent of muskets.
Later,
> At 11:58 PM -0500 10/22/03, Mark A. Siefert wrote:
In the words of O'Neal. "This is a weapon of terror! THIS *Points at
a P-90* is a weapon of a soldier!"
> On Thursday, October 23, 2003, at 03:58 am, Ray Forsythe wrote:
Definitely single shot. Never been convinced about it's armour penetration but
it certainly seems to have decent lethality. Unless the person struck is a
main series character of course, in which case they merely get a serious flesh
wound:).
TTFN
Jon
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 09:16:04AM +0100, Jonathan White wrote:
> person struck is a main series character of course, in which case they
> merely get a serious flesh wound :).
Which is why, in the RPG version of Stargate that I run, it also has a
rapid-fire mode (effectively a plasma shotgun)... :-)
I'd be interested in working more on this. For the s-w, I'd go with
reduced range, reduced rate of fire/firepower, very high impact, and
_consider_ terror effects - or at least some sort of close assault
bonus. The zat would also be very high impact...
> Ryan Gill wrote:
> In the words of O'Neal. "This is a weapon of terror! THIS *Points at
The terror effects of the staff weapon are part of the whole Jaffa/
Goa'uld system for planetary control. From what I recall all the planets still
under control of the Goa'uld are pre industrial societies. Obviously it will
only take a small number of troops armed with energy weapons to scare the
living poo out of the locals. So for gaming purposes you could treat the Jaffa
as causing a kind of tank terror against pre industrial cultures. Against an
SG team, the Jaffa have little impact in that regard, they are just another
enemy troop type, if anything not as good as a proffesional Earth soldier,
giving that their warfare seems to be quite ritualised (at least in regard to
weapons and tactics). Earth based troops seem to be a lot more innovative. And
don't forget to include Spetznatz!
Regards,
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 11:33:05AM +0100, Matt Tope wrote:
> Against an SG
On the other hand, it's quite common for Jaffa to fight other Jaffa. And
when the guy you're shooting is in nearly-bulletproof armour and has
super-fast healing, maybe it is worth having that much power per shot...
R
> Roger Burton West wrote:
On the other hand, it's quite common for Jaffa to fight other Jaffa. And
when the guy you're shooting is in nearly-bulletproof armour and has
super-fast healing, maybe it is worth having that much power per shot...
True, but I have the impression that the Jaffa favour close combat style
actions when they engage each other, after all they lack any kind of mobile
armour. In hand to hand fighting you can use the staff to beat your oponant to
a pulp, or to get in a close range blast which will punch through the armour
regardless. Other than that there usual method of approach is enmass and on
foot. A slow relentless surge with some, limited, air support. These tactics
spark more of inducing terror in a weak foe and forcing their capitualtion, or
as a show of force to a rival system lord. If battle is actually joined a
system lord won't really care how many Jaffa fall as long as the mission
succedes. If heavier forces are required they seem to prefer orbital
bombardment. Which is sensible really, I suppose.
All in all, the Jaffa style of combat reminds me of the ritualised warfare
of the meso-american tribes, in style if not actually in content. Until
SG teams came along the Goa'uld and the Jaffa have had little reason to evolve
their military tactics. The System Lords have enjoyed a standoff with other
major races (eg: the Asgard, and the Reato), and a military/poltical
status quo with each other, and thus have little need to evolve or develope
their armed forces beyond an armed police force. Only with the arrival of SG
and Annubis has the balance been upset...
Regards,
Jonathan White said:
> On Thursday, October 23, 2003, at 03:58 am, Ray Forsythe wrote:
Unless the Nox are around, in which case the shots are fatal, but death only a
temporary condition.
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 09:54:49AM -0400, Robert Crawford wrote:
> Unless the Nox are around, in which case the shots are fatal, but death
Oh, OK. I'll convert the Nox for SG.
Movement: whatever you feel like. Defences: recover from death. Attacks:
lethal moralising. Don't annoy them enough to find out what else they can do.
R
> At 3:00 PM +0100 10/23/03, Roger Burton West wrote:
Don't forget Signature. D30 (or D100?)
What are the primative aliens that are badass warriors. their name escapes
me now, but they have sharp teeth and chin horns They had an episode
recently with them that reminded me of the Romans versus the Germans. Small
band of "hi-techs" versus a horde of "backward" tribesmen. I'd love to
play out an SG2 scenario like that.
Eli
[quoted original message omitted]
What are the primative aliens that are badass warriors. their name escapes
me now, but they have sharp teeth and chin horns They had an episode
recently with them that reminded me of the Romans versus the Germans. Small
band of "hi-techs" versus a horde of "backward" tribesmen. I'd love to
play out an SG2 scenario like that.
The Unas .....)
"This [indicate staff weapon] is a terror weapon, it is designed to
intimidate the enemy, this [indicate P-90] is a soldier's weapon, it is
designed to kill the enemy." Col. O'Neill, recent episode.
The only people who seem to be able to hit anything at any range with a staff
are Teul'c and Master Bratac [sic] and they're not only major characters, but
also warriors of vast experience. Anything that does get
hit, is toast. ROF is very low. I like the musket analogy, there are a number
of scenes where masses of jaffa charge SG troopers and get cut up
badly.
I'd say go for it through Netflix.
> Mark A. Siefert wrote:
> Staff weapons don't seem to be very accurate. They're best used up
Unas, OOnas, something like that. I remembered their name. They would be cool
to see in mini.
Eli
[quoted original message omitted]
The only people who seem to be able to hit anything at any range with a staff
are Teul'c and Master Bratac [sic] and they're not only major characters, but
also warriors of vast experience. Anything that does get hit, is toast. ROF is
very low. I like the musket analogy, there are a number of scenes where masses
of jaffa charge SG troopers and get cut up badly.
One thing of note, the bullets that the SG troopers use are "special loads".
As I recall the first few episodes there was an armor penetration problem.
This would make the jaffa's armor at least as effective as current ballistic
armor. More bullet resistant than proof, but Teflon loads from a SAW or
P90....Ouch
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 11:07:20PM -0700, Don M wrote:
Yup. In the early days the armour is effectively "bulletproof", but once they
switch to AP it's another matter.
Minor point of interest: the teflon-coating of an AP bullet actually has
nothing to do with its AP effectiveness. This got started when a company made
a bullet from solid brass to improve its penetration, and put on a teflon
coating in order to protect the rifling (rather than the usual metal jacket).
The media jumped on "teflon coating", and that misapprehension has been with
us ever since...
More information at http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvcopk.html .
> Roger Burton West wrote:
[...]
> Minor point of interest: the teflon-coating of an AP bullet actually
And more from the same site at http://www.guncite.com/ktwint.html
(quote) Kopsch explained that the teflon coating, which a host of media and
lawmakers alleged was the key to penetrating body armor, served one purpose.
It helped bullets go through smooth surfaces, like windshields and car doors,
especially at oblique angles. The former Army medical officer likened it to
the teflon tip of a walking stick. It simply grabs better.
Kopsch: "Adding a teflon coating to the round added 20% penetration power on
metal and glass."
(unquote; Kopsch is the K in KTW: the original "cop-killers")
So the purpose of the teflon coating *was* to do with AP effectiveness, and
would assist with penetrating metal armour, especially if the bullet struck a
rounded surface at an angle.
The same effect is often claimed by medieval reenactors who test arrowheads
with a lump of beeswax on the tip. I've never seen any source material to
support this as historical usage, but it works. I guess it's a little similar
to both the APC and APCR shot used by AT guns in WW2.
> served one purpose. It helped bullets go through smooth surfaces,
Teflon has a very low coefficient of friction, about the same as wet ice. I
can see "slides through" better, but "grabs better" is nonsense.
> At 11:51 AM +0100 10/23/03, Roger Burton West wrote:
And
> when the guy you're shooting is in nearly-bulletproof armour and has
Those P90's dont' seem to care much about bullet proof armor.
> At 2:47 PM -0700 10/23/03, Don M wrote:
Small
> band of "hi-techs" versus a horde of "backward" tribesmen. I'd love to
And they'd probably benefit greatly from some work with the SG teams and
weapons. They have a good sense of control and a very good sense of ambush
that the Jaffa don't quite seem to grasp.
> At 11:07 PM -0700 10/23/03, Don M wrote:
Teflon does NOTHING for bullet penetration through armor. Its the tungsten or
steel core. And the standard P90 is good at penetrating helmet armor at 200
meters as I understand it.
> At 2:42 PM +0100 10/24/03, David Brewer wrote:
It sounds like any kind of softer metal would work just like the soft cap on
AT tank rounds from WWII
Teflon does NOTHING for bullet penetration through armor. Its the tungsten or
steel core. And the standard P90 is good at penetrating helmet armor at 200
meters as I understand it.
Was using Teflon as a easy means of id for and AP bullet I'm fully aware of
what and AP round is.There is no need to be too literal is there?
> Ryan Gill wrote:
Well, that's what I said, but you snipped that bit off. The inventor certainly
thinks that teflon is the business.
FWIW, the P90 shoots bullets made partially from aluminium.