FTL: ON TOPIC ADDED

> At 12:41 PM 9/15/97 -0700, Brian Burger wrote:

> The problem I have with the 'every race has a different FTL method' is

I must agree. What is even more important is that some of these FTL
meta-physics are in conflict with each other.  The Alderson drive
precludes
Star Wars Hyper-Space and B5 hyperspace as well as each other...

> OK, so how can this possibly be on topic? Because it could be used

I would have to agree whole heartedly. In a strategic games different methods
of space travel could have a very large impact on who gets where first and in
what condition...

There are endless possibilities, I believe that it would have to be based on
the flavor your playing though.

because it could get overly complex with so many different methods of travel.

my $0.02

CMC

Excerpts from FT: 15-Sep-97 FTL: ON TOPIC ADDED by "Chris
McCurry"@vastar.c
> I would have to agree whole heartedly. In a strategic games different

And this could also have an effect on the battle. In GDW's first
release of _Fire, Fusion & Steel_ they mention the Stutterwarp engine,
developed for 2300AD, which doesn't travel FTL if you're deep in-system
(drops off as gravity goes past 0.0001 g) but it still goes *very* fast, much
faster than reaction drives. (Though it's pseudovelocity, so relativity
doesn't matter.) So for each movement phase, I think reaction drive ships got
to move 1 hex (say) and stutterwarp ships got 3000 hexes, or something like
that... mind you, they couldn't *fire* any faster, but they could be anywhere
they wanted to wrt 'normal' ships.
Kinda amusing. ^_^

> On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Chris McCurry wrote:

> >>OK, so how can this possibly be on topic? Because it could be used
The problem I have with the 'every race has a different FTL method' is simple:
laws of physics are universal. Every races radios and nuclear devices are
going to work the same, so it would follow that the methods of FTL travel
would follow the same principles. The technology and details would differ a
small amount, but the basic underlying physics would remain identical.

Unless you want to start arguing that, say, the Kra'vak radios work on
different principles from, say, NAC radio tech?

Just my thoughts.

> Brian Burger writes:

@:) The problem I have with the 'every race has a different FTL @:) method' is
simple: laws of physics are universal. Every races @:) radios and nuclear
devices are going to work the same, so it would @:) follow that the methods of
FTL travel would follow the same @:) principles. The technology and details
would differ a small @:) amount, but the basic underlying physics would remain
identical.

I agree about the laws of physics. If we assume multiple styles of FTL travel
then we also assume there are multiple INDEPENDENT means of traveling faster
than light. That may be something of a stretch but it should make things
interesting.

@:) Unless you want to start arguing that, say, the Kra'vak radios @:) work on
different principles from, say, NAC radio tech?

No but the Kra'vak might use AM and the NAC might use FM. Or the
Kra'vak might use radio and the NAC might use point-to-point laser
communications. Although they probably communicate with EM radiation or
whatever the "best" tech is, they may use it differently which would create
different game effects. So if you prefer, assume there's
only one way to travel FTL but different entry/exit/transit methods.

This is actually similar to B5, in which normal people used jump
gates but the Shadows and some other high-tech races could simply
vanish at will. It appeared that everyone went into hyperspace, though,
however they got there.

  In fact, now that I think about it, I think a multi-FTL system has
already been used in Mark Kochte's B5 rules.

> The problem I have with the 'every race has a different FTL method' is

There is always the perspective that there is always more than one way to do
the same things...

But, it does make more complex and is probably unnecessary detail unless you
are playing a long term strategic FT game.

Or you are a freak like me and just love all the detail for no apparent reason
<ha>

(I'm in it for the strategy version)

CMC

In message <Pine.OSF.3.95.970915123650.8195A-100000@ccins.camosun.bc.ca>
> Brian Burger <burger00@camosun.bc.ca> wrote:

> The problem I have with the 'every race has a different FTL method' is

> Unless you want to start arguing that, say, the Kra'vak radios work on

What if Kra'vak are sensitive to radio? What if radio causes intense migraines
in Kra'vak? Kra'vak would then tend not to
use radio for communication - at least not at the frequencies
we might consider to be 'obvious'.

Our first message of 'we come in peace' was considered to be an attack, so the
Kra'vak retaliated. To bring in another thread here, the Kra'vak aren't
warlike and aggressive. It's just that we always fire first...

(and yes, that was nicked from elsewhere, but I won't give the source so as
not to spoil anyone who might be reading it).

Anyway, to bring it back onto this topic, there could be psycological or
physilogical differences that make different FTL technologies the favoured
among different races.

Maybe the fengal-warp drive is fine for humans, but the slower
yankoofa-drive is preferred by the Jatravartids since the
former gives them severe space sickness. They may work on the same principle,
just differ in their implementation.

> What if Kra'vak are sensitive to radio? What if radio causes

Hey cool! The ultimate weapon vs the Kra'Vak! Elvis over the air! We just
broad-cast "Don't Step on My Blue Suede Shoes" over radio at their ships
and then move in for the kill while they are all on the floors in pain!

"Ready the Secret weapon, Ensign."

"Eye sir!"

"Target aquired, sir!"

"Weapons away!"

"Elvis on line, sir!"

"The aliens ship is just sitting there sir!"

"I knew those alien scum wouldn't be able to stand classic earth Rock and
Roll!"

Man, that's cool......  ;-)

But seriously, I think people are arrogant to think that we will receive a
radio message from highly advanced aliens. What if they ARE sensitive to
radio-waves?  What if they have a better form of communication through
using quantum particles or othr stuff we dismiss as PSB. As stated in Full
Thrust not so long ago the Death Ray was scoffed at as being impossible and
along comes the working laser.

> On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Samuel Penn wrote:

> In message
is
> > simple: laws of physics are universal.
This is a good idea - and one I hadn't thought of. Different races have
different sensory organs/inputs and therefore avoid some of the
'obvious' (to us) tech.

> Our first message of 'we come in peace' was considered to
AFAIK, according to the offical background, the Kra'vak did fire first...but
given the idea of migraines thru radio freqs, I can't say I
blame them - if someone hit my ship with something that gave the whole
crew headaches, I think I'd shoot back...

And if human exo-biologists realize from dissection/examination etc the
Kra'vak weakness to radio, what a wonderful new weapon we could
have...maybe EMP missles etc could be tuned to mind-fry Kra'vak?

> Anyway, to bring it back onto this topic, there could be
Got specs for the yankoofa-drive? :) This is also a great idea, and the
best rational I've yet heard for having multiple FTL drives in the same
universe.

> --

> Maybe the fengal-warp drive is fine for humans, but the slower

Yep. That's pretty good reasoning. Who can say how FTL travel might affect us?
Or another race for that matter.

Well, I must say I love the reason for why the younger races all use
Jump-gates in Babylon 5.  It took me while to work it out, but after
watching the Fourth Season I did it.

For those of you who have yet to see the Fourth Season, here is a Spoiler
Space in case anything I say spoils things for you!

There IS a message down there! Keep going!

Well, after watching the various ways that all the First Ones use Hyperspace,
I must say that I was impressed by JMS's sublty in the reason behind the
younger races using Jumpgates. If you watch them closely, all the First Ones,
including the Shadows, use different methods for entering and exiting
Hyperspace. The Shadows phase in and out, the Walkers use a
huge electical-field thingy, another of the races uses a flash of fire,
and I think there was one more that I saw, but i forget what it was (but it
WASN'T a Jumpgate). The Vorlons use Jumpgates. And which First One race has
had the most contact and performed the most interference with the younger
races? Yep. The Vorlons. Clever. So I'm pretty sure that the reason the
younger races use Jumpgates is because that's what the Vorlons want them to
use and in subtle ways they showed the younger races how to use them.

I like that Kra'vak radio idea. I'm trying to remember but I think I read of
an alien race for which sound waves were like a narcotic. So the more sound
you make the more tripped out the ETs become. Imagine the first contact
consequences of that!

> (and yes, that was nicked from elsewhere, but I won't give

I know! I know!

I really liked those books. The alien race was very well developed.

---

> On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Kelvin wrote:

> >What if Kra'vak are sensitive to radio? What if radio causes
We just
> broad-cast "Don't Step on My Blue Suede Shoes" over radio at their

Or let Minmay (sp) sing!!!  (From Macross/Robotech)

> Chris McCurry wrote:

YA! I find the idea of each player with a stardrive that is limited in a
different way... Very hard to do. Should be pretty cool if done properly.

> Samuel Penn wrote:
is
> > simple: laws of physics are universal.

The "downbelow station" and the "Chanur" series had different FTL drives (all
basically hyperspace). But each race's drives had different effects on other
races. A Chanur drive caused humans to be seasick...

> Kelvin wrote:

> Hey cool! The ultimate weapon vs the Kra'Vak! Elvis over the air!

Better still Lynn Minmei!

Regards........

> On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Kelvin wrote:
We just
> broad-cast "Don't Step on My Blue Suede Shoes" over radio at their

Or Grannies radio (Mars Attacks!) "Do not run, we are your friends!"

> At 10:38 PM 9/18/97 +0100, you wrote:

"Stagefright,go away...this is my time to be a staaaar....":)

> At 10:38 PM 9/18/97 +0100, you wrote:

Like the scene from MarsAttacks where their heads blow up inside their
helmets. I still chuckle when I think about it.

"Bar! Bar! bar! Bar...." Splutttt!!

In a message dated 97-09-18 00:51:36 EDT, you write:

<< > > The problem I have with the 'every race has a different FTL method' is
> > simple: laws of physics are universal.

The Laws of Physics may be universal, but the rules of Engineering are NOT.
Most engineers will tell you that there are more than one way to skin a cat!
(I understand that some people actually don't want to skin cats!!) Some people
ride cars down to the corner store, some people ride bikes, and
some people even walk -- but they all get there even if it's by
different means.