Weapon of the Week, April 6 2001
Closure: #6 Targeting Lidar engendered only PSB discussion for the most part,
and a clarification that it only applied to direct fire weapons, not missiles.
I'm going to be offline for the most part from Friday-Tuesday, so I'm
chosing a WotW I don't think I'll have lots to comment on. I'd like to request
someone else (Charles?) to track the discussion and spool the consensus over
to me.
WotW #7: Holofields
Holofield (SB) [Tom Beliech/Corye Seale] (Corye's web page)
7.5% of ship's mass, 3x mass in points.
Allows saves for hits on 6+ for each hit on the ship from 0-12 mu; 5+
save
on hits from 12-24 mu; 4+ save on hits
from 24+ mu.
Fighters, Plasma Bolts, and Salvo Missiles ignore Holofields. Ships with
Holofields may have no armor, and no
stronger that a weak hull. Weapons such as K-guns, Lasers, and Pulse
Torps need only to be saved once for the shot.
Comments:
(Oerjan) Adds horrendous number of saving throws against beam-using
foes.
How are beam re-rolls treated - do
you save against each DP (or is it die?) inflicted by the re-rolls as
well,
or is it sufficient to save the DP/die that
caused the re-roll? Breaks even if you can stay outside range 24
*all the time*; if not you're better off buying more offensive weapons.
Holofield (T) [Aaron Teske] (Spacefleet converstion page)
Holofields make all rolls to hit an equipped ship subtract 1 from the number
rolled, but do not affect the damage caused by the attack. For example, if a
standard pulse torpedo is fired on a ship 15" away, the torpedo usually
hits on a 4+. If the target has holofields, the torpedo needs a 5+ to
hit. Against salvo missiles, one less missile
will target the Holofield-equipped ship from each salvo. Holofields
effectively count as level 1 screens against beam weapons. Only one Holofield
may be installed on a ship. A Holofield takes up 4 MASS, or 7% of the ship's
MASS, whichever is greater, and costs 3 points per MASS of the field.
Comments: (Oerjan) Better than the other Holofield (SB) variant.
> Holofield (T) [Aaron Teske] (Spacefleet converstion page)
Much prefer this one as the other is FAR too time consuming.
Cheers
Beth
In message <6B3C0EEAB4FED3119F5F009027DC5E9E01D72FD5@spacemsg3.jhuapl.edu>
> "Izenberg, Noam" <Noam.Izenberg@jhuapl.edu> wrote:
> Weapon of the Week, April 6 2001
[quoted original message omitted]
In message <000501c0bfe7$5cbe4d60$31c3893e@inty>
> "Bif Smith" <bif@bifsmith.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> I prefere this myself, a lot simpler and easier to use (remember,
IIRC the PSB is some kind of 'holographic distortion field' that breaks
up the ships shape - making it harder to lock on to (one assumes that
the Holofield affects a wide range of EM wavelengths and possibly some other
sensor systems as well).
I think its from a Warhammer 40k space battle derivative - Battle Fleet
Gothic or the other one.
Teske field version is easier to play, if still a little complicated.
****
Taking an idea from the Phalon Vapour Shroud;
Holofield: Mass: 10%, cost: 4 x mass. The holofield ignores all rolls of "6"
on the first roll. Rerolls still apply.
ie: beams do 1 pt on 4-5 & none on 6 (re-roll still applies); ptorp /
k-gun
ignores to-hit roll of "6" but will score full damage as normal if hit;
missiles ignore a lock-on of 6 missiles and area effect weapons
(Novacannon
& Plasmabolts) do full to-hit & damage results.
The result vs beams can be a little screwy, as reroll damage will bypass the
armour completely if no other die does normal damage.
Neath Southern Skies -http://home.pacific.net.au/~southernskies/
[MKW2] Admiral Peter Rollins - Task Force Zulu-Beta
[Firestorm] Battletech PBeM GM
> -----Original Message-----
In message <6B3C0EEAB4FED3119F5F009027DC5E9E01D72FD5@spacemsg3.jhuapl.edu>
> "Izenberg, Noam" <Noam.Izenberg@jhuapl.edu> wrote:
[snip]
> Holofield (T) [Aaron Teske] (Spacefleet converstion page)
Further thoughts and queries - Does it have any adverse effect on the
firing of the ships own weapons? (probably not).
The restriction of only one per ship is probably not necessary - just
state that they are not cumulative.
However, are they cumulative with screens or vapour shrouds - I'd say
NO, just for the sake of simplicity!
MASS and COST - well, as written it has the protective power of a
level 1 screen against beam-type weapons, it also protects against
k-guns, lance pods, and pulse torpedoes, and provides some protection
from Salvo Missiles. However, unlike a level 1 screen it provides no defence
from Plasma Bolts (not actually stated, but from the PSB I'd say that it would
not provide any protection).
[quoted original message omitted]
In message <002001c0c14d$d1cba280$3fb4893e@inty>
> "Bif Smith" <bif@bifsmith.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> Sounds logical to me. But would the advantages as a level 1 screen
Well, as written, it has a higher MASS and COST than a level 1 screen
(7% of hull MASS as opposted to 5%) - I was just wondering if this was
enough to cover the added advantages. (probably is).
Also, PSB for why you can't use it with a vapour shroud - the shroud
blots out the holo-distortions and so negates the effect :-)
It doesn't work with cloaking devices either (for a similar reason) -
not that anyone would notice ;-)
I actually upped the mass to 10%. This may be a bit high, but the holofield
effectively makes it harder to be hit by ALL weapons (except plasma bolt which
is area effect)
The logic behind this is that my group tends to use a lot of alternate weapon
systems, not just beams. When I started thinking about how many more weapons
are covered by the holofield vs. screens, I realized that I needed to up the
mass.
I think 7% would be fair if you were primarily using ships right out of the
books. My group tends to custom build our own ships and fleets so we don't use
nearly as many beam weapons (the pulse torp is a huge favorite in my group.)
--- Charles Taylor <charles.taylor@cableol.co.uk>
wrote:
> In message <002001c0c14d$d1cba280$3fb4893e@inty>
In message <20010410174944.30750.qmail@web10404.mail.yahoo.com>
> Shawn M Mininger <smininger@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I actually upped the mass to 10%. This may be a bit
[snip]
> =====
OTOH, 10% is easier to calculate :-)
So, what does everybody else think? 7% or 10%, or....?
[quoted original message omitted]
Well, there doesn't seem to have been any activity on this one recently
- are we all in agreement then?
IIRC it was:
Effect as screen-1 vs. all beam weapons (including stingers and pulsars)
-1 to hit (ie. treat target as 6 mu further away) vs. K-guns, pulse
torpedoes, and pod launchers
-1 to number of missiles on target for smls
no effect on plasma bolts and other area effect weapons. KV fighters do no
damage on rolls of 4.
This leaves a few unresolved questions: What is the effect vs. Submunitions
Packs, Multiple Kinetic Projectile packs, and scatterguns? Could be either
'negate rolls of 4 for SMPs, MKPs, and scatterguns vs. ships' or 'no effect'
(in the latter case the PSB is the attacks spread to much for the holofield to
have an effect).
What is the effect vs. MT missiles (I'm sure someone posted this - but
I cannot remember what - reduced 'lock on' range maybe?).
MASS is 10% of the Hull MASS of the ship. COST is 3x the MASS?
(Could use MASS is 5% of Hull MASS, Cost is MASS x7 or even x8 - as an
alternative).
[quoted original message omitted]
> At 07:05 PM 4/24/01 +0100, you wrote:
I *knew* there was something I was forgetting up there, off the top of the
screen... I was away from e-mail while the discussion was going on about
this, the first time.
For the record, Holofields are the Eldar "shield" from GW's Space Fleet and
Battlefleet Gothic; my varient is based off Space Fleet and, actually, FT2.0,
so the 7% MASS was really only countering pulse torps and
submunitions. I'd kinda been keeping in "genre-specific" so I hadn't
considered K-guns, even in the More Thrust version, which is why it was
only 7%.
> IIRC it was:
Wouldn't that fall under "effect as screen-1"? Or do you just want to
state specifics? (In which case, should you call out the effect on Hu'man
fighters as well?) (And if I'm misremembering the KV fighter rules, my
apologies -- the rules are around somewhere, but there's a couple dozen
boxes yet to unpack after the move....)
> This leaves a few unresolved questions:
I'd vote against "no effect"; if the attacks spread that much, they should
be a lot more effective against missiles. (MKP packs? Um.... ^_^;; )
Basically, though, if you pull my original statement about how they work
I don't *think* you meant to only reply to me, so all your text is included
here....
> At 08:30 PM 4/25/01 +0100, Charles wrote:
Okay, sounds good.
> Hmm... one minor thing I think was missed - Torp fighters - negates
I think you meant "miss on 1-3, 3 dp on a 4,..." but since the intent is
to affect "to hit" only, and leave damage at full, I'd say rolls of 4 miss
while 5 & 6 score full damage.
> >This leaves a few unresolved questions:
[snip]
> Basically, though, if you pull my original statement about how they
<grin>
> Well, SMPs, MKPs and scatterguns _all_ use the standard 'beam dice'
Fine by me. ^_^
> >What is the effect vs. MT missiles (I'm sure someone posted this -
<grin>)
> Alternatively count the holofield as an extra PDS vs. each
Hmm, an automatic 1 PDS per salvo? Dunno, other people's opinions...?
> >MASS is 10% of the Hull MASS of the ship.
But setting the actual points cost is more Oerjan's turf. ^_- He's the
weapons-master number cruncher.... <grin>
> One thing I missed from my summary, IIRC it was decided that holofields
Er, *can't*. Correct, and that was incorporated from the beginning. (Well, for
screens anyway, there were no vapor shrouds at the time....)
In message <3.0.5.32.20010425224311.00850240@mail.HICom.net>
> Aaron Teske <ateske@HICom.net> wrote:
> I don't *think* you meant to only reply to me, so all your text is
I did? (checks out-box) - oh yes, must have hit wrong button - sorry!
> [quoted text omitted]
[snip]
> >Hmm... one minor thing I think was missed - Torp fighters - negates
Yes, that is what I _meant_ - I think I was having a bad day :-|
I personally prefer the 'rolls of 4 miss, 5 & 6 score full damage' as
well - the proportional reduction in damage is closer to that of level
1 screens.
[snip]
> >
I proposed it as an easy way of having a general 'holofield vs. missile'
effect that applied to all missiles. It may be a bit too powerful -
depends how good you are at rolling PDS dice - probably worth rather
more to you than to me :-)
Alternatively we use your suggestion, and reduce the missiles 'lock on'
range - this again can be applied as a general rule for all missiles
(well, almost all).
[snip again]
> >The latter set of values are the 'high tech' version.
Yup - but I _think_ that my values are about right :-)
> >One thing I missed from my summary, IIRC it was decided that
Oops - another typo - yes I meant to say 'can't'.
Did anyone see my suggestion to cover this the other week?
Holofield: Mass: 10%, cost: 4 x mass.
The holofield ignores all rolls of "6" on the first roll (either to-hit
or beam rolls). Rerolls still apply.
ie: beams do 1 pt on 4-5 & none on 6 (re-roll still applies); ptorp /
k-gun
ignores to-hit roll of "6" but will score full damage as normal if hit;
missiles ignore a lock-on of 6 missiles. Area effect weapons (Novacannon
&
Plasmabolts) and missiles after locking on (MT or Salvo) do full damage as
normal.
The result vs beams can be a little screwy, as reroll damage will bypass the
armour completely if no other die does normal damage. But this is passable, as
the ship isn't where it visually appears anyway.
Brendan 'Neath Southern Skies
> -----Original Message-----
In message <B18DDC5F1158D311A66900805FD4718102C7C8FA@VSTASV1>
> "Robertson, Brendan" <Brendan.Robertson@dva.gov.au> wrote:
> Did anyone see my suggestion to cover this the other week?
I don't remember seeing that one - _interesting_ idea - doesn't appear
to have any effect vs. MT-Missiles though.
I think I prefer the other version though.
Ok, so, how's this then?
Holofield Generator
Effect as screen-1 vs. all beam weapons (including stingers and pulsars)
and Submunitions Packs, Multiple Kinetic Penetrators, Kra'Vak fighters
and Scatterguns used in anti-ship mode (all the later use the 'beam
dice' mechanic, but without re-rolls in the last 3 cases).
-1 to the value of the 'to hit' dice roll (i.e. treat 2 as a 1, 5 as a
4, etc.) vs. K-guns, pulse torpedoes, pod launchers (where appropriate)
and weapons with a similar mechanic.
No effect on plasma bolts, nova cannon, wave guns, and other area effect
weapons.
To only one we're not sure about is Missiles: One possibility is to reduce the
'lock on range' of both MT missiles and
Salvo Missiles - I think to 5 mu (2.5 mu if playing Vector and using a
3 mu lock on range) is about right. Another is my suggestion of treating the
holofield as an 'extra' PDS vs. each MT missile or salvo.
As an alternative - use Brendan's mechanic - which _does_ cover all
cases except MT missiles with a single mechanic (see 2 posts back).
Does not function with either screens or vapour shrouds (no reason why
you cant have both installed - just the effects are not cumulative).
MASS is 10% of the Hull MASS of the ship, with a minimum of 4 MASS. COST is 3x
the MASS
OR
MASS is 5% of Hull MASS, with a minimum of 2 MASS. COST is MASS x8
Symbol: I prefer my 'fuzzy ship' one to the 'H with screen arcs' one.
Is it me, or has this one dragged on a bit?
If we've finished this one - what should be do next? I have a suggestion
- see other post.