[FT] WotW #11 Stealth Systems

5 posts · Jul 15 2001 to Jul 16 2001

From: Charles Taylor <charles.taylor@c...>

Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 14:27:05 +0100

Subject: [FT] WotW #11 Stealth Systems

Well, as WotW has attracted no further comment, I'm following Noam's
suggestion:

WotW #11 is Stealth Systems - this _could_ include the old cloaking
device :-)

So here are the candidates:

###################
1) Blind Field [Aaron Teske] (Spacefleet conversion page)

The blind field is a suite of powerful ECM equipment coupled with chaff,
flares and a few PSB items that is designed to protect a volume of space.
Unfortunately there were several drawbacks that prevented its use on capital
ships, but for smaller escorts it is a viable system.

The blind field effectively doubles the distance between any two ships (or the
ship and a missile) as far as targeting and firing is concerned.

i.e., Ship A (with Blind Field) is 8mu away from Ship B, but if B fires on A
it would be as though the ships were 16mu away. the field works both ways: B
is also considered to be 16mu away should A wish to fire upon it.

A blind field takes up 3 MASS or 30% of the MASS of the ship, whichever is
greater, and costs 4 points per MASS of the field. The radius of the blind
field on the board is the ninth root of the MASS of the system: note you need
to escort a vessel (per fighter rules) to grant this protection to another
ship. Blind fields cannot be combined with other types of shields or screens.

2) Cloaking Shroud Gland [Charles Stanley Taylor] (via e-mail)

For simplicity, this is identical to the More Thrust cloaking device, but
using a PSB suitable for Phalons (based on the Vapour Shroud Gland).

3) Jammer (Minbari) [Sean Penn's B5 Conversion] (Sam's website)

Minbari jamming systems prevent lock on by enemy ships. Ships can use multiple
fire control systems to give themselves an increased chance of locking on
however.

A jamming system has a mass equal to 5% of hull mass, and a cost equal to the
mass of the ship.

Any ship that tries to fire on a jamming vessel has to roll a d6 to lock
on if they are beyond 6mu range. Up to 12mu, they need 3+. Up to 24mu,
they need 4+. Out to 36mu they need 5+. Any range beyond 36mu needs a
roll of 6 to lock on.

Multiple fire controls targeting Jamming ship give multiple rolls.

Comments: (Oerjan) Probability to get a shot off for varying numbers of FCSs:
Range (mu) 1 2 3 4 5 Avg. Surv. Value
0-6             100%    100%    100%    100%    100%    100%    0
0
6-12            67%     89%     96%     99%     100%    84%     19%
2xMass
12-24           50%     75%     88%     94%     97%     71%     41%
6xMass
24-36           33%     56%     70%     80%     87%     54%     86%
15xMass
> 36 17% 31% 42% 52% 60% 31% 226%

Note: The "average". is weighted by the percentage of the ships in my design
archive which have that number of FCSs (on the 9th of February, 2001). The
"Survivability boost" is roughly "how much more firepower does the enemy need
to throw at the ship to kill it", though in this
case it only applies fully if the enemy has no non-jamming targets to
shoot at - otherwise he can shoot at some other target instead. The
"Value" is a rough calculation of how good the system is at that range
(screens = 3xMass).

Therefore, 20xMass could work, or could be a bit high (as usual it's better if
the cost is too high than if it is too low!). A ship with
jammers and extreme-range weapons is dangerous if it has enough engines
to keep the range open, but so is *any* fast ship with extreme-range
weapons simply because they're so difficult to catch. Inside range 36 (where
considerably more weapons are able to shoot at it) 20xMass would seem to make
it somewhat overpriced, except that I assume that you need
to *dedicate* FCSs to the intended target (ie., if you fail the lock-on
roll you don't get to use that FCS to engage another target). The
jammer-equipped fleet needs to keep the range open at all costs though!
And, of course, this is another system which favours large ships (which can
carry multiple FCSs)...

What does it do to missiles etc.? (I assume that missiles can't be jammed
since they only aquire targets within 6mu anyway.) How does it
interact with enhanced/superior sensors?]

Note: Compare with the Mimbari Jammer in the EFSB: A single roll per FC
by the Mimbari player, on a 4+, the FC is jammed, and cannot fire.
Also works vs. fighters (and presumably missiles), each fighter group (or
missile salvo) is treated as a single attack.

4) Stealth System [Noam Izenberg] (NIFT-Midbar Skunkworks)

Mass as screen, Cost 3x screen (9 pts/mass)
Stealth Level 1 is 1/4 reduction in opposing range bands.Level 2 is 1/3
reduction. Stealth systems follow threshold checks as any other system.

PSB – active ECM system like the Minbari stealth system in the B5 universe.

5) Stealth Hull

Has same effect per level as Stealth System, but different PSB.

Stealth hull loses 1 level at Threshold 2, second level (if any) at Thresh 3.

This better than a thresholdable system at first, then worse as the ship gets
more damaged, so on the whole, would it be a wash, costwise?

Is 7% mass/level and cost 5/mass too much/little? I think it worked OK
for a thresholdable system. If we want to tie it into streamlining, we could
Mass it like streamlining
(10%/level) and cost it 3 pts/Mass. Or keep it at 7% and say that
Stealth 2 ships are automatically partially streamlined. Or add on to
stealth at 3%Mass and 2pts/mass/level.

Mass Stealth 1 Mass Cost 150 11 or 15 55 or 45 100 7 or 10 35 or 30 50 4 or 5
20 or 15 25 2 or 3 10 or 9

I could go either way, perhaps leaning toward the lighter, more expensive
stealth. The PSB of stealthing and streamlining doesn't bother me one bit. I
could see it work a bunch of ways. Don't forget Streamlining in FT could also
simply be a modified screen system that creates an aerodynamic "shell" around
a ship screaming through an atmosphere.

Ok, IIRC Jon Crimmins once posted a system called the i-Cloak for his
space Illuminati - which somehow never made it into the WDA, and I can't
find it in the archive - if anyone has the details, could they please
add it as number 6).

Ok, lets see what everybody thinks.

From: Aaron Teske <ateske@H...>

Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 11:37:31 -0400

Subject: Re: [FT] WotW #11 Stealth Systems

> At 02:27 PM 7/15/01 +0100, you wrote:

Just to note, the numbers are complete PSB and designed around getting a

single ship (the Stalwart Escort, natch) to match the other Space Fleet
conversions I did in mass while maintaining the same abilities it had in

Space Fleet. So please don't go nitpicking the numbers too much (though I
admit I *am* curious how "well" the numbers work out...), I just wanted to
make a system that would make sense to mount only in small installations

(or else why wouldn't other ships have it...?). I actually toyed with the
idea of restricting it to non-FTL ships only (the Stalwart doesn't have
a warp drive) but couldn't see why the thing couldn't just be shut down... so
I made it prohibitively expensive, instead. ^_-

BTW, in my Space Fleet rules I allowed small ships to escort larger vessels as
fighters, which partly simplifies orders (basically squadron maneuvering) but
also allowed the Blind Field to operate. Note that the

large ship can't use more thrust than the smaller ship is capable of or it'll
fall behind... not that such a thing is a danger in the Space Fleet universe!

I'm not sure if ninth root makes sense for anything, BTW; I just took that
from a high school physics experiment I did, theoretically to measure the
strength of a current-induced magnetic field vs. distance, IIRC.  The
teacher said our setup was fine, but our numbers somehow fit (almost exactly!)
a ninth root curve. Very, very odd....

From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@m...>

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:32:35 +1000

Subject: Re: [FT] WotW #11 Stealth Systems

G'day,

> The radius of the blind field on the board is the

While Aaron has given an explanation for why he chose that particular radius
wouldn't it just be easier to say (rounding to nearest):

Mass of ship Mass of system Radius
      <128             3 - 38                 1"
  129 - 12711     39 - 3813              2"
Anything large enough to get a 3" radius shouldn't have to worry about a

blind field;)

So what happens when the blind field doesn't even cover all of the ship?

Cheers

Beth

From: Robertson, Brendan <Brendan.Robertson@d...>

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:01:43 +1000

Subject: RE: [FT] WotW #11 Stealth Systems

On Monday, July 16, 2001 1:38 AM, Aaron Teske
[SMTP:mithramuse@njaccess.com]
wrote:
> At 02:27 PM 7/15/01 +0100, you wrote:
Looks like an ECM variation. How about simplifying it down a little. Mass 10%
(min. 3), the Blind Field doubles the effective range to AND from protected
ships (you don't get something for nothing). Radius is 3MU or 1 additional
ship per blind field. Useful to protect freighters, not so useful for
warships.

'Neath Southern Skies - http://home.pacific.net.au/~southernskies/
[sstrike] Raider Fleet of War Leader Kel'em'all

From: Charles Taylor <charles.taylor@c...>

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:33:01 +0100

Subject: Re: [FT] WotW #11 Stealth Systems

In message <07a2799a4a.Charles@cableol.co.uk>
> Charles Taylor <charles.taylor@cableol.co.uk> wrote:

> Well, as WotW has attracted no further comment, I'm following Noam's
Hmm.. this is actually similar the Noam's Stealth Generator, but more
effective, affecting the ship using it as much as the attackers, and having a
(very small) area effect. As the area effect is negligible, treat it as the
stealth equivalent of a Phalon vapour shroud.
> 2) Cloaking Shroud Gland [Charles Stanley Taylor] (via e-mail)
[snip description]

I think I'd prefer the (simpler) EFSB version, if we could give it a
cost (Hmm.. effectively halves the chance of an attack succeeding - so
doubles the effective number of hull/armour boxes - so cost = cost of
hull and armour on ship, average hull is 30%, cost 2 each, so total cost
approx. = 1.3 x MASS of hull, say MASS is 10% of hull, cost is 10 x MASS
?).
Alternatively, the Mimbari Jammer in B5Wars doubles the effective ranges
for attackers, so we could class it as a level-3 stealth system (ok, the
documented Stealth System only goes to level-2). This would have the
advantage of using a combined mechanic for a number of similar systems.

> 4) Stealth System [Noam Izenberg] (NIFT-Midbar Skunkworks)
For the Mimbari Jammer (q.v.), add Stealth Level-3, reduces attackers
range bands by 1/2, MASS is 15% of hull, COST is 9x MASS (these numbers
are sheer guesswork ATM) (or just call it Stealth-2).
> 5) Stealth Hull
[snip description]
I think the Stealth System and Stealth Hull should probably be treated as
almost the same system, with the same MASS and COST. As an option,
they may be affected by Thresholds differently: Stealth _System_
thresholds normally, having a Stealth System Icons for every 5% of hull mass
used in the system.
Stealth _Hulls_ do not make thresholds, they automatically lose 1 level
after the 2nd row of hull boxes is lost, and the 2nd level after the third row
is lost.

Combining Aerodynamic Streamlining with stealth. I'd say that a level of
streamlining can be upgraded to the equivalent level of Stealth with no
increase in MASS used, but the cost increases to 6 x the MASS.
> [quoted text omitted]
[snip i-Cloak]