[FT] WotW #10 Damage Shields - shall we put it to bed?

This thread seems to have gone rather quiet - did we come to any
conclusions?

Shall we put it to bed?

What should we discuss next?

> Charles Taylor wrote:

I'm not sure on the damage shield, I didn't read a lot in the thread but the
Sa'vasku dployable armour is shaping up ok.. just one or two tweaks to it
left. I'm finding balancing "special" weapons and defence systems is easier on
the S because of their power allocation system.

In message <3B43B280.7458E9B1@spikyfishthing.com>
> Jaime Tiampo <fugu@spikyfishthing.com> wrote:

> Charles Taylor wrote:

Well, there were a number of different defence systems being discussed
separately, of varying degrees of complexity.
The simplest was the Void shield - which acted as armour that could be
repaired with damage control rolls.

In message <6B3C0EEAB4FED3119F5F009027DC5E9E01D732A1@spacemsg3.jhuapl.edu> you
wrote:

> Charles,

Ok, Here is a (rather long) summary of the discussion:

I'm re-posting this to the list as well, as I had a few new thoughts,
and to see if I missed anyone.

##############################

In general (and I think this was brought up more in the earlier 'Real Shields'
discussion, there is the feeling that 'protect against anything' and perhaps
'protect against kinetics' defence systems would
weaken the K-Guns - making them overpriced. In the case of a specific
'kinetic' defence system, this could possibly be handled by raising the cost.
But there is no real solution for an equally effective defence except upping
the cost to the point that it is a 'Jack of all trades, master of none'.

Another thing that should be considered: FT uses a 'model' where ships are
reasonably durable, and screens just provide additional defence. In
some SF, the shields/screens are _all_ the defence, once they are gone,
the ship (however big) has about 1 hull box, other genres are between these 2
examples.
> [FT] WotW #10 Damage Shields (Was Real Shields) (long)
Charles: Hmm.. thats quite a lot of thresholds if you've got a few shield
points. Perhaps if the ship makes a normal threshold check, roll 1 threshold
for the whole system for speed of play?

(New Suggestion) A possible, faster play, version is to put a limit of 6 boxes
per generator. During the damage control phase, roll 1d6 for each generator,
subtracting the number of boxes on that generator that have absorbed damage,
the result is the number of boxes that 'regenerate'. Generators should be
'stacked' (like Phalon shell), damage is applied in sequence. If all boxes on
a generator are hit, it must make a Threshold
roll. K-guns are treated in the same way as when used against a Phalon
shell.

> ----------

Charles The time that the FTL system cannot be used after the shield is
dropped
is rather long (on an average roll) - I'd remove this limitation, and
just keep the limitation above.

Bif Smith: Probably to stop people jumping in and out (especially out),
instead having to stay and fight.
> ------------------
Cost
> 3/mass
David Griffin: This one sounds promising. I wonder if Jon is going to include
something like this in the "official" next generation? It seems to me that
lots of genres would have shields of various types, so it's not just Star
Trek.

Roger Books: So how many points of damage does a shield have?

Bif Smith:
How about works like a normal screen against beams, and a damage/kinetic
screen against others (K guns etc).

Charles: Using the effect of Screens vs. plasma Bolts as an example, I'd say
that for weapons that do a straight d6 damage, a level 2 or 3 ME shield
should negate rolls of 6, and a level 4+ ME shield should negate rolls
of 5 & 6. Against K-guns, I'd subtract half the ME shield level from the
K-Gun class _only_ for the dice roll to determine if damage doubles.

Considering that (at least in games I've seen) people tend to resolve the
entire attack of a ship by rolling all beam dice at once, the fact that this
shield requires keeping track of the rolls of individual weapon's dice would
slow down play a lot.

> ----------------
attacks.
> >From D6 "damage=roll" attacks (Plasma bolts, Nova Cannon) PS absorbs
Charles:
First thought; _why_ can it block area effects? - I'd remove this
ability. Also - I think its a bit unwieldy and would slow play a lot.
Personally - if I was to use such a system - I'd prefer something
simpler: Say: ship can mount any number of pinpoint screens (MASS
allowing) each can intercept ONE attack per turn (say on a roll of 4+ or
5+) vs. fighters or Salvo missiles intercepts 1 beam dice of attacks.
Down side of this: logically, K-gun shots should be _easier_ to
intercept than beams! Solution: either: It don't work vs. beams! (dunno
if this fits source), or Intercepted K-guns are lessened in effect
(say, 1 dp absorbed), but not stopped.

Bif Smith: Because it worked like that in macross (put the pinpoint shields
between your ship and the blast wavefront and hide behind it).
> ----------------------
Charles: Could make the MASS a proportion of the total MASS of the ship, say
(just as an example), MASS = 2% of hull MASS per point (must buy at least 1
MASS worth)? Or leave MASS as given, but COST multiple is a percentage of hull
MASS? Or: remove the regeneration dependence on damage control (and hence ship
size) - each damaged void shield box is regenerated on a roll of 6 on
1d6 (roll for each damaged box, during damage control phase).
Assuming an average game length - it should be possible to come up with
a reasonably balanced cost. OTOH, the standard FT screens are only cost
effective on ships above a certain minimum size.

In either case, I'd suggest an enhancement: Layered Void Shield Works like
Phalon Shell armour, but can be repaired (or regenerates). MASS is 1 per void
shield box, COST is cost of void shield box x layer number (c.f. shell
armour).

If I was doing a Star Trek conversion, I think I'd use this system to
represent deflectors, and use screens to represent the structural integrity
field (but I'm not, ATM).

Well, I hope this helps