Well, last night me and Adam tried out his EDF designs.
He had the Yamato and the Mogami, I used one of Allan Goodall's tournament
fleet (the NAC SDN fleet).
Game parameters were:
Simple meeting engagement 1mu=1cm Cinematic movement no Core Systems
no Fighter Morale (we forgot! - but there were only 4 flights in play
anyway) the Wave Gun stated uncharged
In the end Adam won, largely because I still have problems in; a) getting my
ships to go where I wanted them to go b) have a mental scale failure combined
with paranoia about the Wave Guns area of effect c) Didn't take out the Mogami
first, it had a lot of Adam's firepower but not that many hull boxes (put that
down to bad fleet intelligence) d) towards the end having a set of bad
thresholds combined with worse damage control rolls (compensated for my damage
rolls earlier in the
game, I guess :-)
Initial evaluation of the Wave Gun - It got used once, then Adam got
paranoid about it blowing up on him. As has been observed on the list many
times, its a lot less useful on a design like Adam's Yamato, which has a lot
of other weapons etc. all of which are unusable at the same time as the wave
gun. On a custom 'Wave Destroyer' (A destroyer with a wave gun, and perhaps a
couple of B-1s & PDS for when its charging the Wave Gun) it would be a
lot nastier - a factor I will address below.
In use, using the FB2 turn sequence, a couple of questions came up that we
would like to put to the list...
Firstly, when fired, the Wave Gun disables the firing ships screens
through their forward arc - does the list think that...
a) Wave Gun fire should be declared at the beginning of the Phase 9) Ships
Fire, and the forward arc screens are down for the entire firing phase?
b) Wave Gun fire is declared when the firing ship is activated, and the
forward arc screen are only considered down from that point onwards?
c) like a), but Wave Gun fire is declared before Phase 8) Resolve Missile,
Plasma Bolt and Fighter Attacks, to allow for Plasma Bolts,
fighters, etc. attacks to take advantage of the vulnerability - or maybe
it should be declared even earlier, at the star of Phase 4) Launch Ordnance,
to allow the opposing player to plan on taking advantage of the vulnerability?
We used b) - which made a slight difference - not much (IIRC the Yamato
fired its Wave Gun just after the Valley Forge fired everything at it
through the fore arc - but I think I rolled very few '4's that time).
But what does the list think?
Secondly, Should Wave Gun fire be partially penetrating (like pulse
torpedoes - half damage on armour, half goes through to hull, or the
next layer of armour on Phalons), or not. We played not, but I don't think it
would make any difference. The statement in More Thrust that Wave Guns ignore
armour we took to apply to the More Thrust Kra'Vak armour, not the more recent
Fleet Book 1 armour.
Ok, here are a few revisions of the Wave Gun rules me & Adam have thought up:
1) Wave Gun Capacitor Charging Rate. Instead of this being a straight 1d6 per
turn, we think it should depend on the size of the ship carrying the wave gun
(this would reduce the effectiveness of the 'wave destroyer' I mentioned
above, without limiting
the bigger ships - It would also help for designing ships like the
EDF Andromeda.
So, each ship would have a 'Maximum Charge Rate' on each round that the Wave
Gun is charged, 1d6 is rolled, as per More Thrust, but the
_maximum_ charge per round is the 'Maximum Charge Rate'.
For example, if the Max. Charge Rate is 4, each round, the player of the Wave
Gun ship rolls 1d6, but the capacitors cannot be charged by more than 4 points
each round.
I'd actually base the charge rate on the mass of the FTL drive, for a number
of reasons...
1) In Space Battlecruiser Yamato/Starblazers, the Wave Motion Gun is
based on the same tech as the FTL drive 2) In Full Thrust, the FTL drive Mass
is usually in direct proportion to the hull mass.
3) You can, if you desire, get a faster re-charge rate by buying extra
FTL drive (which may, or may not, be useable as a 'tug' FTL)
4) You cannot build a System Defence Wave Cruiser :-)
As a starting value, I suggest that the Maximum Charge Rate be 1 for every 5
MASS of FTL drive.
2) More Wave Gun Charging Rules. A Wave Gun cannot begin a scenario charged.
Wave Guns are charged at the same time initiative is rolled for.
3) Clarifications (bit obvious really). If a partially, or fully charged wave
gun fails a threshold check or is hit by a needle beam attack, the energy
charge is released, inflicting
1d6 points of damage for each charge in the weapon. This _does_ ignore
armour, as it goes off inside the armour. :-) With regards to ships
'touched' by the template - this means that the template passes through
the designated centre point of the ship.
Options (largely for Adam's EDF designs)
1) Multiple Wave Guns. A ship can have more than one Wave Gun, each rolls its
own d6 for charging, but the total amount of power recharged in a turn cannot
exceed the Maximum Charge Rate (q.v.) More than one Wave Gun can be fired in a
turn, but they are the only weapons that can be fired.
2) Turreted Wave Guns.
A Wave Gun can be turret-mounted, this increases its MASS and cost by
25% for each arc, including the first. As a standard Wave Gun is MASS
12, Cost 36, each arc is +3 MASS, +9 COST, so a 1-arc Wave Gun would be
MASS 15, Cost 45.
Well, thats probably enough for now :-)
Our next game, I get the EDF ships - so we'll see what happens then.
> From: Charles Taylor <nerik@monkslode.fsnet.co.uk>
I had 2 Heavy Fighter squadrons to your Interceptor and Attack.
> Game parameters were:
Wave gun paranoia seemed to help there.
> b) have a mental scale failure combined with paranoia about the Wave
33 hits 10 to first threshold vs 96 and 24. The Mog has 4x3batteries and a
pulse torp to the Yamatos 3x3, 2x2 6x1 and other weapons.
> d) towards the end having a set of bad thresholds combined
You did better than usual on damage and I was mostly doing below average, the
Yamatos guns especially, though that cleared up after I landed the fighters.
> Initial evaluation of the Wave Gun - It got used once, then Adam got
More that being in among your fleet I could do more damage with the turrets
since I wasn't likely to get more than one of your ships in the area of
effect. The chance of extra damage form it exploding just kept it cool rather
than ready to use. As it was the only time I'd have hit multiple targets with
it after the first shot would have included the Mogami.
> As has been observed on the list many times, its a lot less
The Gearing class IIRC.
> In use, using the FB2 turn sequence, a couple of questions
Or requiring more points to charge for small ships, but that would cause WG
Destroyers to disappear on loosing a charge Wave Gun. The problem with a
charge cap is charging becomes more certain.
> I'd actually base the charge rate on the mass of the FTL
> Options (largely for Adam's EDF designs)
> Well, thats probably enough for now :-)
Until i can work out how to simmply describe the actions of Drill missiles. Or
the wave motion cartridges and missiles.
> From: "Adam Benedict Canning" <dahak@dahak.free-online.co.uk>
> > On a custom 'Wave Destroyer' (A destroyer with a wave gun,
My father served on a RL Gearing class destroyer, the USS Bausell (DD
845).
Keel was layed in 1945, was commissioned post-WWII. Was FRAM'ed and
when my father was aboard in the 60's, it was the first tin can in the Pacific
Fleet to carry ASROC. You can't tell my father was proud of his service, can
you?
2B^2
> Adam Benedict Canning Wrote:
Or requiring more points to charge for small ships, but that would cause WG
Destroyers to disappear on loosing a charge Wave Gun. The problem with a
charge cap is charging becomes more certain.
What about using graduated dice, like in FMA? A ship with a mass (Or FTL mass,
depending on your taste) below a certain point would roll a d4 instead of a
d6?
2B^2
"The Irish are the only race of people on Earth for which psychoanalysis is of
no use."
- S. Freud
> Brian Bilderback wrote:
> Adam Benedict Canning Wrote:
But that is not an unreasonable consequence of overgunning a small hull.
Charging should not really be determined by the dice, anyways. Due to the lack
of energy allocation in FT, the amount of charge added to the capacitor should
be a function of the mass of available MD not used for thrust. Large ships
with powerful drives have a lot more divertible power than a small,
low-thrust
design. Probably extra points should be allowed for classes-worth of
beams designated as unpowered (in the orders phase) to divert additional power
to the wavegun.
The reason that the points should not be subject to a die roll is that the
being that added the weapon the the design knew how much energy it would
> On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 01:55:08PM -0500, Richard and Emily Bell wrote:
...but also adds horrible amounts of complexity to gameplay. I'm coming down
in favour of "fixed cycle time, number of turns" more than anything else.
> At 08:54 9/03/02 -0800, 2B^2 wrote:
Then it wouldn't be Full Thrust (which exclusively uses D6s) it would be
"Starship Combat - FMA" ;)
Cheers
> Derek Fulton Wrote:
> Then it wouldn't be Full Thrust (which exclusively uses D6s)
If you want to be really Ministry of Silly Walks about it, anything that
isn't in the books isn't "Really" Full Thrust, but if it works to reproduce
the desired effect, go for it (That seems to be Jon's attitude, it SHOULD be
the approach to ANY system).
it
> would be
The problem with this being..........
2B^2
"The Irish are the only race of people on Earth for which psychoanalysis is of
no use."
- S. Freud
In message <20020309190026.GA21932@firedrake.org>
> Roger Burton West <roger@firedrake.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 01:55:08PM -0500, Richard and Emily Bell
Yeh, I can go with that - relatively easy to do:
# turns between firings is inversely proportional to mass of ship (or mass of
FTL drive on ship)
Say #turns to re-charge = 60/(MASS of FTL)
So with 30 MASS of FTL, you can fire once every 2 turns.
In message <F109kenROwuWuCuD42S00019153@hotmail.com>
> "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Derek Fulton Wrote:
Well, FT2 does suggest the use of d12's for determining random directions,
but...
OTOH, as FT _mostly_ uses d6s (and there is an alternative, d6-based,
way of determining random directions as well) it possible (and this could
start a whole new thread if I'm not lucky) that FT players only carry d6's. So
introducing new dice would cause an inconvenience to
them :-)
> it
Nothing, if someone is willing to put the time & effort into developing
it :-)
> Charles Taylor Wrote:
> Well, FT2 does suggest the use of d12's for determining random
*snip*
Plus, if you are leaning towards fix recharge times, my suggestion is not
really necessary - it was just that, one suggested alternative.
> > it
Actually I HAVE been fiddling with a SORT of Space Combat FMA - actually
Aerospace FMA, sort of FT FMA and DS II in space. The intention is to
create a fighter-level aerospace combat game with fighters that are
fully compatible in design with DS II fighter rules, so that if someone WANTS
to,
they can have people playing 2 concurrent games - DS II and the fighter
game (tentatively called Full Afterburners), with the fighters able to enter
the DSII game to add air support. Currently the biggest obstacle is coming up
with a way to convert FT movement rules into 3D for atmospheric combat (The
idea is to allow either movement while in space, but a 3d form of cinematic
in-atmosphere) and my reticence t put too much effort into DS II
compatibility since that sytem seems on ther cusp of a major revamp.
2B^2
G'day,
> Nothing, if someone is willing to put the time & effort into
I did something similar when I was mucking around with a homebrew version of
FT-Piquet. Basically, as far as the firing bit went, there was a crew
quality and that was adjusted for weapon type etc and rolled vs a D8. I never
had enough time to polish it off, but it had potential.
Cheers
In message <55ca0b154b.Charles@nerik.monkslode.fsnet.co.uk>
> Charles Taylor <nerik@monkslode.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <20020309190026.GA21932@firedrake.org>
Further Enhancement:
Multiple Wave Guns - divide FTL MASS by # of wave guns before
determining Rate of fire.
Effect of charged wave guns failing threshold checks:
Divide 4D6 by rate of fire - multiply by number of turns since last
fired to get damage (maximum 4D6).
Can take Wave Gun 'off-line' (declare in orders) in which case no damage
is done if it fails threshold. But it must be 'on-line' for #turns equal
to Rate of Fire before it can fire again. If multiple WGs, if one is
off-line, others charge faster (but not if one is damaged/destroyed.
EMP attacks do not cause knocked-out WGs to damage the carrying ship.
Classed Wave Guns:
I'm considering the following - class is always even #
Damage in 1st 12mu = 1D6/class
Reduce by 1D6 per 12mu until it reaches half of class. i.e.
Class 2: 0-12mu: 2D6, 12-24mu: 1D6
Class 4: 0-12mu: 4D6, 12-24mu: 3D6, 24-36mu: 2D6
Class 6: 0-12mu: 6D6, 12-24mu: 5D6, 24-36mu: 4D6, 36-48mu: 3D6.
Beam path starts 2mu wide, increases by 1mu per 12 mu.
This will need integrating with the charging/RoF rules above.