Okay, Breathers of The Cosmic Emptiness, please share with me your wisdom in
its ample supply!
Orbits - I have a bunch of defsats/stations. I want them to orbit a
planet. Assume the following details in answering the questions:
Planet diameter Dp = 6-8" (6000-8000 km);
Game scale = 1000 km/inch;
Turn length = 15-20 minutes;
Satellites are defense platforms to protect the planet from invasion or
orbital attack.
Q1: Do I want such objects in geosynch or non-geosynch orbit? Why? Why
not? Q2: In whichever case you suggest is appropriate (geosynch,
non-geosynch),
what is an appropriate distance from the centre of the world to locate these
satellites for a standard non-decaying orbit?
Q3: How fast should these move in one of these 15-20 minute turns? Would
your answer be measured in angular degrees per turn or in inches along the
orbital path? Q4: Would your answers to the above questions change, and how,
if these platforms purpose was to act as ortillery platforms and as
surveillance platforms for the planet rather than defense sats? And would it
be possible to have one satellite constellation provide both roles? If so,
what orbital parameters would such a system require? Q5: Is there any
modification to weapon attacks against these platforms that is appropriate
given they occupy a fairly set movement pattern and are therefore inherently
predicatble? Treat effective range as 75% of actual range or some such thing?
Q6: Should these be constructed as ships without drives or FTL but otherwise
as a vessel?
My thanks (in advance) for the replies from the many learned members of the
list.
Shooting from the hip...
I believe geosynch indicates a 'stationary relative to a spot on the surface'
orbit. This is possible, as far as I know, only at one altitude, dependent on
the mass, diameter, and rotational speed of the planet in question. Also, it
would have to be in the 'perpendicular to the rotational axis' plane to match
the spot, which would have to be on the equator. Precession ignored.
The rest of the items, I'll have to cogitate.
The_Beast
-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon
One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer - Adolf Hitler
***
Shooting from the hip...
I believe geosynch indicates
***
Er, just in case all that was already known, I guess I'd point out geosynch
could be either near/in atmosphere or beyond effective weapon range, if
the rotation is either very fast or very slow.
The_Beast
-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon
One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer - Adolf Hitler
OK sports fans, time to dig out the old physics books :-)
> Planet diameter Dp = 6-8" (6000-8000 km);
This depends on a bunch of things: how many defsats are you going to put
around this world; are they likely to survive long enough for them to gain any
possible advantage from being rotated out of the line of fire; is the planet
going to benefit from a new one coming into play or are your attackers going
to simply pick on the weak spot no matter where it happens to be?
> Q2: In whichever case you suggest is appropriate (geosynch,
We're going to assume circular orbits just to keep things simple...
The equation we use is r=[(G*M*T^2)/(4*pi^2)]^1/3, where G is the
gravitational constant, M is the mass of the planet, and T is the desired
period. For Earth, that boils down to 4.23*10^7 m for a period of 1 day That's
4.23*10^4 km, or 42.3 inches at your game scale
> Q3: How fast should these move in one of these 15-20 minute turns?
Would
> your answer be measured in angular degrees per turn or in inches along
v=(2*pi*r)/T
For Earth again, that gives v=3076 m/s
Assuming a game turn of 15 minutes that hashes out to 2.76 in/turn
along the orbital path
> Q4: Would your answers to the above questions change, and how, if these
Ortillery platforms would not be geostationary, as they would be needed at
different points around the planet. Same for surveillance platforms, except in
the case of a specific place that needs constant observation. As for the
parameters, pick your period (estimating how many times you'd like it to go
over a certain point per day) and use the above equations.
> Q5: Is there any modification to weapon attacks against these platforms
Not according to the current rules. It might be assumed that they have small
thrusters suitable for evasion, but not for movement. KISS
> Q6: Should these be constructed as ships without drives or FTL but
Yup.
> -----Original Message-----
[Bri] Non-geosynch orbit. Geosynch orbit is useful if you need to
view the same portion of the planet for long periods of time. Or to simplify
finding the satellite from the planet (communications satellites).
> Q2: In whichever case you suggest is appropriate (geosynch,
[Bri] It depends if you want accuracy or playability. If you want play
ability, you could use the orbits in MT p.13: Orbit is at a distance from the
center of the planet equal to the diameter of the planet (or distance above
surface equal to the radius of the planet).
> Q3: How fast should these move in one of these 15-20 minute turns?
Would
> your answer be measured in angular degrees per turn or in inches along
[Bri] If using the MT method, velocity should equal the radius of the
planet orbited.
> Q4: Would your answers to the above questions change, and how, if
[Bri] If you need to have an area observed constantly, you either need
multiple satellites where one will be covering the area as one goes out of
range or geosynch satellites. For geosynch, divide the rotation of the planet
into 15 minute sections. Then divide the planetary disk into a number of
sections equal to the number of 15 minute periods. The geosynch satellite
would move from one section to the next each turn. So, if over Earth, you
would divide the orbit into 360 sections and move it one section per turn. In
the case of Earth this is easy. just
lay a protractor over/under the planet and move the satellite 1 degree
each turn. (Gee, those Babylonians were smart).
> Q5: Is there any modification to weapon attacks against these
[Bri] See below.
> Q6: Should these be constructed as ships without drives or FTL but
It depends on how large they are and what their range will be [See Below]. If
they are large (over mass 2) platforms with major weapons,
that are incapable of movement, then cost them as non-FTL,
non-MD ships. Otherwise, see below.
> My thanks (in advance) for the replies from the many learned members
My comments above are marked by [Bri]
If I were to choose an orbital defense system, I would make them much more
like dormant fighters. Small, but efficient.
Starfire Defense Satellite:
Cost: Same as fighter +2
Mass: Same as std. fighter The Starfire is in actuality an AI controlled
fighter. It is placed in orbit around a planet and augmented with solar
collectors to maintain power when not activated. Once activated, it performs
as a standard
fighter. As with a fighter, it may not be targeted by non-PDS weapons.
Once activated, it has an endurance of 1.5 hours of active engagement.
Treat it as a 1 fighter fighter group that does not make morale checks and may
not be refueled. It must, however stay within 72mu of the planet it protects.
It has an endurance of 6, and may use secondary movement (although this cuts
it endurance). Usually these are
purchased in bulk in hopes of overwhelming an opponent's PDS/ADFC
net.
Specialized versions exist:
- Interceptor
- Attack
- Long Range
- Fast
- Torpedo
- Heavy
A planet could purchase quite a few of these cheaply.
if a major world, I would suggest that a planet have a good number of real
fighter groups, a number of missile launchers (MT and Salvo),
and Heavy Weapons (Beams, P-Torps, etc.), and MANY PDS
sites in addition to a home defense fleet.
If it is a small world, it may only have a defense grid.
If a very small colony (Hadley's Hope), it may have no defense at all.
---
> -----Original Message-----
> > > really cheap very-low orbit satellites that consist of basically
> > > terminal guidance).
But then you have dumped a lot of your velocity, and thus, kinetic energy.
Still, several kgs of long-rod penetrator hitting at multiples of the
speed of sound would still produce a bad day for anything it hit.
At what multiple of terminal velocity does the plasma enclosure end? I am
making an assumption that the velocity at which an object would be incased in
a plasma sheath would be a multiple of the terminal velocity. Terminal
velocity, as I understand it, varies according to the object's drag. It would
stand to reason that the plasma sheath (caused by friction) would be dependant
on the same drag.
---
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
http://www.ftsr.org/ds2/
---
From - Mon Dec 04 11:30:38 2000
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From: "Bell, Brian K" <Brian_Bell@dscc.dla.mil>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: Inspired Ships (was: Phalon only supplement)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 08:47:12 -0500
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Try the OU ships. They seem inspired by either Space Above and Beyond or Fifth
Element.
http://www.eurekamin.com.au then choose 'Ground Zero Games', 'Full
Thrust Starships', 'Oceanic Union' from the side-bar (or
http://www.eurekamin.com.au/Ground_Zero_GamesFull_Thrust_StarshipsOceani
c_Un
ion.html).
-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
-----
> -----Original Message-----
[snip]
From - Mon Dec 04 11:30:39 2000
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From: "Bell, Brian K" <Brian_Bell@dscc.dla.mil>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: Winter War 28
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 08:50:21 -0500
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Here is the URL for GZGWCC:
http://www.naxera.com/gzgwcc/index.html
-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
-----
> -----Original Message-----
> >> building and have the mercenaries dig him out... reasonable given
From - Mon Dec 04 11:30:43 2000
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Thanks all for pointing out the West Coast event also. I guess I failed to
specify that I was really hoping for something in
the middle - say Chicago, Indianopolis, or St.Louis.
There are a ton of us gamers in the vastness of this country far removed
from the coasts.:)
> Bell, Brian K wrote:
> Here is the URL for GZGWCC:
> not on the East Coast?
> building and have the mercenaries dig him out... reasonable given
--
The Middle Ages were a great time to be alive, because if you weren't wiped
out by the Plague or impaled by some marauding barbarian, then yippee.
"chocolate covered musings"
(http://www.amused.com/nick.html)
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Subject: Re: Inspired Ships (was: Phalon only supplement)
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Yeah, those look pretty close.
It is nice to see _some_ pics of the figures, my biggest complaint of
most of the figure sites/store sites out there is not enough images...
none of the physical stores in my area carry any GZG (if not for the web
I never would have even heard of it) and not being able to see what the things
look like really cramps the ability to find what I like, let alone order
anything.
I have been considering setting up a section on my website devoted to
collecting pics of figures to become a library for reference with brief
opinion(s) on each figure pictured. Trouble is I do not have access to the
dynamic scripting tools I know with my ISP:(
> Bell, Brian K wrote:
> Try the OU ships. They seem inspired by either Space Above and Beyond
http://www.eurekamin.com.au/Ground_Zero_GamesFull_Thrust_StarshipsOceani
c_Un
> ion.html).
--
The Middle Ages were a great time to be alive, because if you weren't wiped
out by the Plague or impaled by some marauding barbarian, then yippee.
"chocolate covered musings"
(http://www.amused.com/nick.html)
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> Bob Makowsky wrote:
Most orbiting spacecraft (aka 'satellites' ;-) which need to maneuver
use gyros. Case in point, the Hubble Space Telescope has 6 gyros aboard for
maneuvering set up in an askew configuration. Thus we can use any 3 gyros to
maneuver the spacecraft. Often 4 are up and running with the other 2 on
standby for emergencies or backup considerations.
Much of the basic principles behind it are outlined in most any (but prolly
not all) spacecraft operations manuals.
Power for DefSats could easily be from solar panels. Just PSB your way to the
best efficiency for the smallest panels possible and have at it.
Or assume small-scale fusion plants or something. :-)
Mk
> Bob Makowsky
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Subject: Mid Con Con? Re: Winter War 28
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***
There are a ton of us gamers in the vastness of this country far removed from
the coasts.:)
***
That's the problem, of course. This continent IS vast. ;->= And we're in
the large distance area. I'd suggested either KC or Sioux City which have
small cons of their own, and, GenCon remains 'near' Chicago, which usually has
a GZG presence to match the size, if not the focused venue, of the coast cons.
GenCon has been very nice in that; instead of KR's support via mail, he's
right there. Great guy to meet, though, standing at the booth, my daughter
dominated the conversation with him and his SO. *heh heh* No fear, Megan is a
lovely woman.
I haven't been out to Denver's cons for awhile. Anyone know how's GZG doing
there? Anyone going in February?
The_Beast
-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon
One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer - Adolf Hitler
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> Peter Mancini wrote:
[...]
> Anyway, after I sent that message I realized that the real solution
RE: missiles. Isn't that spoofability already covered in their 'to hit' rolls?
Mk
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Subject: Re: Winter War 28
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There are a number of smaller con's in the midwest of considerable merit.
Winter War 28 {kudo's to Mr.McKinney et al} is only an example.
Others to consider for 2001: Spring Maneuvers, KS., Little Wars, Chitown,
Egyptian Campaign, SIUC, Carbondale IL, CALL TO ARMS, KC, DieCon, St.Louis,
MO. These are just a couple of historically oriented or mixed genre cons but
quite likely to have some good gaming possibilities.
Check out the HMGS events listing for some additional info. The URL is
www.hmgs.org.
Also, I'll be happy to post info on DieCon and some other St.Louis area events
as it becomes available, if desired to do so.
Thanks Pat Connaughton