[FT] UN ship design

Does anyone have a UN fleet? I'm curious as to how they put their ships
together? Are they designed for independent patrol operation?

> Los wrote:

Los, Normally tab 'A' goes into slot 'B' ect.

:-)

Bye for now,

I only wish GZG minis fit together that well!

Los

> John and Roxanne Leary wrote:

> Los wrote:

Los,

Check out http://www.public.usit.net/arrowjr/index2.html, for some pixs
of
my custom UNSC ships - I am still working on my Patrol Dreadnought. Our
UNSC ships are armed with torp/beam and shilds. The Patrol Dreadnought
is designed for long term operations and quick responce action.

I hope this helps.

SA

> On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Los wrote:

> Does anyone have a UN fleet? I'm curious as to how they put their

Los spake thusly upon matters weighty:

> Does anyone have a UN fleet? I'm curious as to how they put their

Yes, but then if we told you..... (pthppt. Thud of body hitting ground.).

I suspect they'd 1) Have some tech no one else has 2) Have to design with
ideas of smaller formations, therefore
multi-role capability a must
3) Have top of the line on all systems (if you can't have many ships, by all
means, have the best). 4) be backed up by an awesome intel organization so
they'd get good strat and tactical data on enemy movements and caps

Of course, if you think the UN is toothless and useless, you might say they
are: 1) small in number, not large in size 2) designed for economy, not tech
3) subject to some really variable crew quality 4) captained by men afraid to
damage their ships due to the
difficulty of the UN affording repair - timid captains.

Depends on your view of the UN.
/************************************************

> I suspect they'd

where'd they get it from?

> Of course, if you think the UN is toothless and useless,

yup. (suppressing a Political Rant with some difficulty).

> you might

5) subject to serious ROE limits. "You can't shoot them until AFTER they've
killed you, Jones." 6) often unarmed. "We're only here as observers."
"Captain, I observe incoming fire." "Hm. Well, try not to bleed to much, we're
short of bandages."

The reason I asked becuase I was trolling the TOYLAND bargain bin (Uhh, yeah
it was for my 1 year old son...) and they had micromachine packs in there 3
for 10 bucks. SO I picked up to starwars packs each with a clud cirty (Makes
an awesome spacestation) and escape pod (again could be some orbital platform)
abd a calamari cruisers. The cruiser is nice and sez UN patrol cruiser to me.
I'm giving it beambatteries, shields and superior sensors, etc. I also picked
up a star trek pack withCardassian warship Runabaout and DS9 which looks like
a great KraVak orbital defense platform. All are perfect size for FT.

Los

> Thomas Barclay wrote:

> I suspect they'd

> Depends on your view of the UN.

I'll go for the small powerful advanced fleet that takes care of mother earth
and also does deepspace aptrols on the Rim.

In a message dated 98-10-25 21:20:35 EST, you write:

<< > Depends on your view of the UN.

I'll go for the small powerful advanced fleet that takes care of mother earth
and also does deepspace aptrols on the Rim. >>

If you organize the UN forces as the real UN does you would have a smattering
of ships form most of the nations that are a part of the UN (69 out of
~150),
but as has been disused in the Leagle commity at BMUN confrance was the UN's
devloment of its own "peacekeeping" force, if this pased it would have
resuleted (at least in theroy) in a small, but very high tech force (upgraded
M1A2s (A3?) and M2A4 (A5?)) in about a Cav Reg sized force. It was regected to
the high cost of design and procuring the AFV, ether approch would work, it
just depends on two things, (1) how much support does the UN have from its
member nations and (2) how much money do they have to spend? My $.03 Bye
Stephen

> John M. Atkinson wrote:

> My universe has a series of semi-genocidal conflicts in it's recent
Let's
> go supress it. SOP #3 boys").

I think a good way to make the UN troop thing work is that instead of having
troops loaned to eth UN on secondment, that the UN recruits its own forces
directly. This way you aren't NSL or NAC or New Israeli but you are UN. Think
similar to Foreign Legion, but with higher quality peronnel and a better
budget. (differnt ROE though.) This also simplifies committment of UN forces.

A most excellent page. I can't believed I missed that one up till now...

Los

> Steven Arrowsmith wrote:

> Los,
Our
> UNSC ships are armed with torp/beam and shilds. The Patrol Dreadnought

> > routine situations ("ho-hum, Congo's having another revolution.
Let's
> > go supress it. SOP #3 boys").

Or as my history teacher used to say, "I have nothing planned for the weekend,
let's invade Poland!"

> I think a good way to make the UN troop thing work is that instead of

Higher quality personnel before training, or after? Camerone is pretty
convincing, to me.

I'd agree that direct recruitment would be the logical way to do things...and
therefore I'm convinced the UN will never do it.

> laserlight wrote:

> Higher quality personnel before training, or after? Camerone is

Higher standards of recruitment. I was talking vs the French Foreign Legion
(which isn't very hard to do.)

> I'd agree that direct recruitment would be the logical way to do

Maybe, but if we're going to game with them and they have all these neat ships
(BTW is there a UN FT line? They certainly have a UN SG line) then we've gotta
so SOMEthing....

Glover, spake thusly upon matters weighty:

> Er, I'm sure that the "Official background" explains that in 2183 that

Not being ignorant, but do you have a citation for that? I think that is
right, but I don't know where I got the idea.

This must imply some solid tax-base or a real firm grasp on the big
powers making them pay their bills......

and probably implies UN citizenship options too.

> They way Rob Deakin's Expansion Campaign background is developing has

I think a lot of folks would consider serving Humanity. If the UN had good PR
(especially with the Bug War coming), they'd get lots of quality recruits,
even some with combat experience transfering from other forces. And they may
well second their officers and NCOs as observers (to gain experience) to other
militaries when they aren't in use by the UN.

If the UN has good money in 2183, then maybe it pays more and maybe can
recruit 'cream of the crop'.

> This way you have two echelons of UN intervention; Peaceforcers and

I figure the UN has 1) An Intelligence Arm (and a Chief Intelligence Officer
(CIO)) 2) A military Arm (under a Chief Military Officer (CMO)) 2a) A fleet
under a Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) 2b) A land force under a Chief of
Planetary Operations (CPO) 2bi) A rapid reaction marine force (for 'apply
hammer here' sits) 3bii) A large group of conventional forces (peacekeeping)
3biii) A large group of unarmed observers 3) A diplomatic Arm (under the Chief
Diplomatic Officer (CDO)) 4) A support Arm (under the Chief Operations Officer
(COO)) 4a) A Special Service Force (SF) for covert UN operations

All are responsible to the Secretary-General and Security Council
(and thereafter the General Assembly).

But I think the UN must be capable of performing the following:
1) Intelligence gathering inside the Inner Colonies/Core
2) Intelligence gathering outside the Inner Colonies/Core
3) Analysis of Intel 4) R&D for new tech
5) Security in the Core/Inner Colonies (anti-smuggling, anti-piracy,
defusing brewing wars) 6) Observation of Conflicts and Development
(Everywhere) 7) Protection of Humanity against outside threats (Xenos) 8)
Coordination of Trade and Economic Policy 9) Coordination of Industrial
Development and Environmental Protection (including maintianing Quarrantine
Regs) (aside: In Traveller, if you attempted to land on Earth in breach of
quarantine, they'd burn you out of space....)
10) Resolution of Diplomatic/Economic/Political/Cultural Crisis
through Mediation, Diplomacy 11) Peacekeeping in quieted combat zones 12)
Observation of conflicts in hostile zones 13) Enforcing Peace in areas where
continued conflict is considered unacceptable to the Security Council Members
14) Recruiting and training new UN forces and diplomats and such 15) Disaster
Relief across the Human Sphere

11 - this would be an article 7 Peacekeeping mission
13 - This would be an atricle 9 Intervention mission

(Perhaps the Articles of the UN have been re-drafted)

I may have missed some, and others may tell me some of this is noen of the UNs
business. It's just one suggestion.

In any case, the troops/policy should fit the mandate. That has to be
the first established item - what is (and how broad is) the UN
mandate, what powers (economic and otherwise) has it to back them up, and to
what extent does it circumvent that mandate to accomplish its agenda...

Tom.
/************************************************

Er, I'm sure that the "Official background" explains that in 2183 that the UN
is maintaining its own forces. ie people joining give up their individual
nationality.

They way Rob Deakin's Expansion Campaign background is developing has the
Indian sub-continent providing the bulk of general run-o-the-mill ground
troops for teh UN. Well, all those millions of Aryans have to go somewhere in
teh GZG universe. Teh UN is as good a place as any.

This way you have two echelons of UN intervention; Peaceforcers and
Peacekeepers. The Peaceforcers are your hi-tek (not the boot) Power
Armour dudes and the Peacekeepers are the more conventionally armed patrolling
types.

Ideas?

Owen G

[quoted original message omitted]

> Los wrote:

There's no "set" UN fleet, so whatever you create yourself is it!

> This way you have two echelons of UN intervention; Peaceforcers and

Sounds exactly like what I had in mind for the UN. The Mainres are the
high-tech "enforcers" while the bulk of the U is made up of more regular
"peacekeepers". I intend on collecting some NAC infantry to use as UN regulars
with my UNSC marines. As for my UN fleet. Well, that is in the piepline
somewhere....

> laserlight wrote:

> > 1) small in number, not large in size

7) Of highly varying quality. Some troops used in UN operations are
serious bad-asses and damn fine troops (Nordic Batallion in Bosnia
springs to mind, as do certain Canadian units). Some are utterly worthless
(Bangladeshis spring to mind too).

My universe has a series of semi-genocidal conflicts in it's recent
past.  The UN is pretty much a non-issue outside of the Solar System and
a handful of the first colonies. Inside The Core, it depends more on concensus
and troops loaned from greater powers to provide most of the firepower. The UN
Space Command and UN Marines tend to be
first-response troops (aka 'tripwires'), liason assets (reference recent
discussion on Special Forces--a handful of advisors at the batallion
level to make sure everyone is on the same sheet of music and to coordinate
between units of differing nationalities.), and for use in
routine situations ("ho-hum,  Congo's having another revolution.  Let's
go supress it. SOP #3 boys").

> On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, laserlight wrote:

the rule for impfor or whatever it was called in sarajevo was that three shots
could be fired back if a sniper fired one shot at the un. french troops
quickly took advantage of a loophole in the orders and, when shot at with an
AK47, fired three rounds back from their IFV's 30mm...

Tom

> Thomas Anderson wrote:

> the rule for impfor or whatever it was called in sarajevo was that

Nobody told the Danes. Their reaction to sniper fire was 31 rounds of 105mm
from a Leopard I. That was also the LAST time anyone shot at them.

> John M. Atkinson wrote:
french
> > troops quickly took advantage of a loophole in the orders and, when

Heh. I remember being told a story about some Serbs guarding a bridge
who took a pot shot at some French Foreign Legion troops and _hit_
one...

Next morning that entire group of Serbs woke up unexpectedly dead.

Of course, the FFL didn't know anything about it, no-one snuck through
their lines or anything...

I have no idea if this is true or not, but it's an interesting story.

> Heh. I remember being told a story about some Serbs guarding a bridge

I read an account by a Canadian forces Sergeant who was part of the force that
opened up the Sarajevo airport with General Lewis MacKenzie. MacKenzie's
personal bodyguard was made up of French Marine Commandos, who were sent in
before the Candians got there (MacKenzie was there for a while with his staff
setting up operations). The French Marine contingent, and
the Canadians once they were there, set up counter-sniper operations
because they were constantly under fire. Supposedly, one of the French troops
was rather good at his job, and started developing quite the reputation. The
French eventually had to fly him out of the country
because serious threats were being made against their forces - he was
doing too much damage...

> At 10:57 PM 10/25/98 -0500, you wrote:

Its from the Stargrunt II rulebook, page 65 in the Background section:

"The United Nations, by now very much an independant body with its own
resources and military forces, continues to try to keep some kind of lid on
the simmering pot of international (and now interstellar) relations."

Well, that's according to Jon's version of the GZGverse events.