And now, once again, for something Completely Different.
Never mind the Kra'vak for the moment: what do we do about the
Sa'Vasku? Don't get me wrong, now--I like the SV rules as they stand,
but they are somewhat problematic for me. See, my SV fleet consists of a LOT
of GW Tyrannid ships, most of which are quite small. The biggest ships, of
which I only have three, are equivalent to heavy cruisers, and
everything else is significantly smaller. We did a game not all that long ago
that involved 20 or so of my SV ships, and it was Not Good. Writing orders for
20 ships is, of course, time consuming. Rolling the power factors for each
ship, allocating them, and THEN writing orders takes just short of an
eternity. If I want to use all 50 of my SV ships
in a game (as I am planning), I need a different system. Or I need to give up
sleep. I figure on trying the different system first. I apologize for the
length of this post, but I tend to my writing in intense bursts during my
somewhat less than copious free time. All of these ideas have been germinating
for a while, though.
What follows is a string of ideas. I do not have my Fleet Book
with me; otherwise I would attempt to give balanced mass/point costs.
Suggestions will be gratefully received.
**Building Sa'Vasku Ships** SV ships are built, more or less, like human
ships; various "nodes" (systems) are fitted into a hull of a specified mass.
Due to the nature
of the SV, however, there are some differences. I: Select mass. II: Subtract
x% of mass, designated as "Brain". This takes the place of human Firecons,
among other functions. III: Subtract y% of mass, designated as the ship's
"Heart". This
is the organ that absorbs/manipulates energy, and takes the place of
human screens, again among other functions. IV: Add armor, if desired. Organic
armor, being less tough than the artificial variety, costs half as much, but
masses twice as much. V: Buy nodes, from the following list (for details of
weapon functions, see below).
A: Beam Nodes--just like beam batteries, but lower cost and
higher mass.
B: Vipers--a sort of living missile. A one shot weapon,
crossed off when fired. C: Drone Pods. You know 'em, you love 'em.
D: Implosion Beam Node--a heavy weapon that does damage based
on the mass of the target.
E: I need a Name For This--an organic Sandcaster, which
functions as a temporary shield. F: Drive Node. Like the human system, but
with a higher cost. G: Other Stuff, Which I Shall Think Of Eventually. I am
sure that I am missing something obvious and vital.
**Mechanics** The SV use the cinematic movement system, and can spend all of
their thrust on maneuvering, not just half.
SV beams function just like human beams, but have an 8" range band (Giving
Class 3 beams a maximum range of 24").
Vipers hit like Pulse Torpedoes (I think; I need to look at the system again),
but are much nastier, due to the cloud of nanites that they release. On the
turn that it hits a ship, a Viper does 1d6. On each
subsequent turn, the Viper does 1d6-1 point for each turn that it has
been active. Therefore, on turn 2, A Viper does 1d6-1, on turn 3 it
does 1d6-2, etc. If the damage from a Viper roll is ever equal to or
less than zero, then the Viper is spent and does no further damage.
Implosion beams are weird. Range is relatively short (12", maybe), and the SV
players rolls to hit as if firing a normal beam, including
re-rolling sixes. However, the damage is equal to the beam damage
(totally ignoring shields) times 10% of the target's mass, rounded up. All
damage is applied directly to the hull. Does this make any sense? Thought not.
A SV ship fires an Implosion Beam at a Battleship, with a mass of 120. The SV
player rolls a 5, which would normally inflict 2 points of damage. Instead,
the player inflicts 2 times 12 (120 divided by 10) points. In other words, 24
points of damage.
The sandcaster (which needs a Better Name), fires a dense cloud of
particulate matter, which effectively blocks all beam fire--including
that of the ship that fired it--through certain arcs. The cloud covers
three arcs--the one through which it is fired, and the two adjacent
arcs. The cloud is fired at the end of the movement phase, and lasts until the
end of the fire phase.
The SV do not have shields, but they are able to ABSORB beam fire. SV absorb
half of all damage (rounded up) inflicted by beam weapons, up to a maximum of
10% of their mass, rounded up. Damage applied to armor may
not be absorbed. If the SV ship has already absorbed its max, all further
damage is applied normally. Each point gives the SV ship one d6 (an actual,
physical d6, hopefully of a distinct and unusual color) which may be spent in
the following manner: Added to a beam attack (the die is rolled along with
normal dice). Gives one extra point of thrust (the die is returned to the
common pool). Regenerates damage (gives one standard repair roll to any
system, or restores 1d6 hull points. Armor may not be regenerated). Give an
additional 6" range to an Implosion Beam (again, return the die to the common
pool).
A SV ship may spend any or all of its dice, allocating as many dice to a
function as it wishes (so yes, you can add 4d6 to a beam attack, assuming that
you've absorbed enough damage to do so. Dice may be stored, but it's probably
best to spend 'em while you can.
SV ships may not be boarded, nor can they launch boarding parties.
SV ships have two core systems; Heart and Brain, and losing either of them is
Bad.
For the moment, that's it. How's it look?
How about Sa'Vasku boarding teams? Tear off a gobbet of 1 MASS from the
launching ship and toss at a defending ship. [dice roll] if successful,
boarding party tunnels through 1D6 of armour in the first turn, then 1D6 of
structure in the next turn, then randomly select one weapon system to be
destroyed in the next turn, then one core system is taken over.
How about "Mister" for your organic sandcaster? Instead of spraying sand,
it sprays water/some other liquid - which in space instantly freezes
into ice crystals anyway, giving roughly the same effect. fits the
organic-ship
feel as well.
(One of David Brin's books had a scene where a (non-bio) ship dumped a
massive load of water to screen it's escape - and to lose the
wieght)(Can't remember the name...not 'Uplift War', not "sundiver', one of the
other uplift series books...with dolphins in it...mental blank...)
Brian spake thusly upon matters weighty:
Is this possible? I'm not sure it would work. I think that falls into a
popular fallacy about space: That space is cold (ducks and prepares for salvo
fire from the physics guys out there).
I was under the impression space was not cold, rather it had a lack
of temperature - because as I understood it temperature is a property
of matter relating to how excited or how expanded the particles were and what
phase they were in or some such. As a result, space being largely empty,
doesn't really have much of a temperature.
And you can't effectively lose heat in space (by ejecting water) because (I
could be wrong) the water has no nearby particle which it can transfer its
energy (heat) to, therefore it is unlikely to freeze. I believe you require a
transfer of energy between molecules or some such to change temperature.
This is illustrated by one of the main space shuttle problems: Overheating.
The humans and equipment inside radiates heat. It doesn't (because it can't)
radiate into space. So things get warm. The only way to radiate heat is to do
something like heat a gas and then vent that gas (particles with energy
attached) into space, thus venting the energy. Normally, because you can't
radiate the energy, it just stays with you. Or so I understood.
Now perhaps I'm totally FUBAR. (Wouldn't be the first time).
> How about "Mister" for your organic sandcaster? Instead of spraying
/************************************************
I did some quick crude radiation heat transfer calculations and found a 1 mm
sphere would freeze in about 10 sec, 1cm sphere in 100 sec., 10 cm sphere in
1000 sec and so on. This ignores the heat loss due to vaporization of water.
At standard conditions the heat of vaporization is about 7 times that of
freezing and it is conceivable that some of the water could vaporize which
would draw off enough heat to freeze the rest of the water. One should also
note that the author Brian mentioned (David Brin) is a physics professor.
> Brian spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> > I was under the impression space was not cold, rather it had a lack
> > and what phase they were in or some such. As a result, space being
Right, but...
> > And you can't effectively lose heat in space (by ejecting water)
> > can transfer its energy (heat) to, therefore it is unlikely to
> > or some such to change temperature.
Damn, and here all this time I've been thinking the Sun radiated energy.
8)
> On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Timothy Pricer wrote:
> I did some quick crude radiation heat transfer calculations and found
So a mist of liquid would work about as I thought it would...nice to know. Big
pustuales (sp?) on the sides of S'v bioships...an interesting
image...
I based this idea on Brin's book (as mentioned) and on stuff I've read from
the Apollo & other space programs where ice crystals have been observed from
outgassed atmosphere, ejected material, etc.
Tom wrote, earlier:
> > This is illustrated by one of the main space shuttle problems:
AFAIK, the shuttle (and the rest of the stuff in orbit) has more probs with
the sun's heat than internal heat. With no atmosphere, the sun's heat
can be brutal. While the shadow parts of a craft can be vacumn-cold -
which can lead, I've read, to terrible strains on the structural
integrity. (Heating expansion/contraction of the metal isn't even for
the structure, for starters)
> On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Thomas Barclay wrote:
space is cold, it is just also not very dense :-). however, you can
still move heat about by radiation; as every schoolboy learns, heat can move
by
conduction, convection and radiation - in space the latter is the only
method. space is quite a good medium for infra-red radiation to cross,
as it is largely empty.
> I was under the impression space was not cold, rather it had a lack
you can also measure temperature by looking at radiated heat, and the
universe has a measurable temperature of 3 K, or about -270 celsius.
this
heat is what is left over from the big bang. the things in space - stars
and the like - are usually a lot hotter.
> And you can't effectively lose heat in space (by ejecting water)
water in space can lose heat by radiation, and so can freeze, as someone else
has already calculated and posted. however, mercury would freeze far more
slowly, as, being highly reflective, it cannot radiate heat as well. i tend to
think that heat loss from vaporisation will be far greater than radiated heat
loss, however.
> This is illustrated by one of the main space shuttle problems:
the shuttle, and other spacecraft, get hot mostly because of radiated heat
from the sun. this can be dealt with by rolling the ship (i think this is
called barbeque mode, or donner kebab mode to the brits) or having circulating
coolant.
> > How about "Mister" for your organic sandcaster? Instead of spraying
sounds good; it might work by disrupting fire-control rather than the
beam itself; whilst the direct mode might work against lasers, i feel it would
be harder against particle beams.
> > (One of David Brin's books had a scene where a (non-bio) ship dumped
as someone pointed out, brin is a physicist, so we trust him on this one. on
the other hand, frank tipler is a physicist, and he's written some complete
tosh. stephen baxter is an engineer, and 'moonseed' has gaps the size of
intergalactic voids. this is probably why they call it 'science fiction'.
Tom
You've all read the bit the FT where it says the game isn't based on reality
or mathematics right?
On Johns C's good idea sheet, have you checked out some of the systems in ICE
night brood these had an organic tech.
> From memory:
Ink - acts like a shield like the Mister/Caster
Ink follows its launch vector so the ship is coverd as long as it stays inside
the cloud.
Spore Mole Launcher - organic missile with attitude, attaches to enemy
then bores through releasing organic pathological fungoid spores. As a weapon
this could not damage equipment but kill crew factors.
Grappling tube - does a spider number on a disabled enemy to suck out
its juices for repairing bio-ship.
Against Projectile weapons (i.e. RG's) the SV could be resistant as the
projectiles generally pass harmlessly through the self sealing organic matrix.
Ok, I'll weigh in on this one. I'm an engineer (boring technical discussion
warning. RUN FOR THE ESCAPE PODS!!!!!!!!!)
<TECHNOBABBLE>
Water freezes when dumped into a vacuum because of the sudden loss of pressure
(ie, pressure goes down, temperature does as well). Water can be used to dump
heat from a spacecraft because is carries some of the heat away with it, you
just can't carry enough to make this method
useful. Temperature control _IS_ a big problem though. Passing heat by
way of molecules is either convection for moving molecules or conduction
for stationary molecules. In space its done by radiation. One of the concepts
for cooling the Space Station was to pass oil through the system, then spray
it across a gap open to the vacuum of space, where the droplets dump heat by
radiation, then recover it on the other side
of the gap and re-circulate. OK, thats enough, are you all asleep now?
;^0
</TECHNOBABBLE>
JimC
----Original Message Follows----
From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@sofkin.ca>
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 21:20:53 -0500
Subject: Re: [FT] The Sa'Vasku
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Brian spake thusly upon matters weighty:
Is this possible? I'm not sure it would work. I think that falls into a
popular fallacy about space: That space is cold (ducks and prepares for salvo
fire from the physics guys out there).
I was under the impression space was not cold, rather it had a lack
of temperature - because as I understood it temperature is a property
of matter relating to how excited or how expanded the particles were and what
phase they were in or some such. As a result, space being largely empty,
doesn't really have much of a temperature.
And you can't effectively lose heat in space (by ejecting water) because (I
could be wrong) the water has no nearby particle which it can transfer its
energy (heat) to, therefore it is unlikely to freeze. I believe you require a
transfer of energy between molecules or some such to change temperature.
This is illustrated by one of the main space shuttle problems: Overheating.
The humans and equipment inside radiates heat. It doesn't (because it can't)
radiate into space. So things get warm. The only way to radiate heat is to do
something like heat a gas and then vent that gas (particles with energy
attached) into space, thus venting the energy. Normally, because you can't
radiate the energy, it just stays with you. Or so I understood.
Now perhaps I'm totally FUBAR. (Wouldn't be the first time).
> How about "Mister" for your organic sandcaster? Instead of spraying
/************************************************
Thomas Barclay
Voice: (613) 831-2018 x 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255
"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes
it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
-Bjarne Stroustrup
**************************************************/
Jim sez: Passing heat by way of molecules is either convection for moving
molecules or conduction for stationary molecules.
***
Of course, definitionally, heat IS molecules in motion. However, of course,
Jim is speaking on a macro level, as in flowing motion in a fluid (convection)
and relatively stationary in a solid (conduction).
Pedantic old farts (remember most of your professors?) will out-bore ANY
young techno-geek; AND in far less space. ;->=
Unless, they are into remembrances. I remember my first year FORTRAN
instructor... *snore*
The_Beast
OOOOOO, thats a truly wicked thought. I like it.
JimC
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Andrew & Alex" <Al.Bri@xtra.co.nz>
To: <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: [FT] The Sa'Vasku
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:09:18 +1300
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
How about Sa'Vasku boarding teams? Tear off a gobbet of 1 MASS from the
launching ship and toss at a defending ship. [dice roll] if successful,
boarding party tunnels through 1D6 of armour in the first turn, then 1D6
of structure in the next turn, then randomly select one weapon system to be
destroyed in the next turn, then one core system is taken over.
Andrew Martin
Oh no, no NOOOOO, not not...........FORTRANNNNNNNNNNNNNN.....
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
%-0
JimC
----Original Message Follows----
From: devans@uneb.edu
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:48:47 -0600
Subject: Re: [FT] The Sa'Vasku
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Jim sez: Passing heat by way of molecules is either convection for moving
molecules or conduction for stationary molecules.
***
Of course, definitionally, heat IS molecules in motion. However, of course,
> John C <john1x@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
> I: Select mass.
I haven't had time to read this entire post, but why add nodes?
The S'V could choose any function for their ships if they had enough energy
for it, and I see no reason to change that. Adding functions? Sure. The basic
mechanic, however, was an exchange between energy and any given function.
> At 08:15 AM 12/7/98 -0800, you wrote:
The basic mechanic, interesting though it is, is very flawed. Have you ever
played a game with the SV? I like the way they work, and will probably adapt
it somewhere along the line, but they are not suitable for a large game.
Rolling and allocating power factors for fifty different ships (the size of my
fleet) is just too slow a process. Eliminating the use of power factors speeds
up play considerably, while the addition of different systems helps maintain
the alien flavor.
Which, for the record, is kinda minty.
> You've all read the bit the FT where it says the game isn't
I have to deal with reality on an almost daily basis...thus, I make no effort
to include it my games as well.
> On Johns C's good idea sheet, have you checked out some of
> inside the cloud.
This would not be impossible in an FT game, though it would be something
of a pain in the ass. Using puffs of cotton to represent the cloud, you
could move it in a straight line at a constant speed. It might be interesting,
but I think that it would be more trouble than it is worth.
Plus, I think that the particles would tend to disperse relatively quickly.
> Spore Mole Launcher - organic missile with attitude, attaches to enemy
Could be a variant of the "Viper" biomissle, doing its additional damage
to the crew rather than to the ship
> Grappling tube - does a spider number on a disabled enemy to suck out
I would tend to think that hydrostatic shock would still be a
factor...especially considering the size/speed of RG rounds. If you are
going with the amorphous idea, though, I can see a ship being cut in half by
an RG shot, and becoming two smaller ships. This doesn't really
fit with my concept, but it does sound kinda neat.
Anyone have any input on my enegy absorbing idea, by the way? That's the
concept that I am most fond of, and it seems to be somewhat workable, as well.
> -= tim jones =-
> On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, John C wrote:
> >
<big snip>
> Anyone have any input on my enegy absorbing idea, by the way? That's
Yes..
SA
> On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, John C wrote:
> the concept that I am most fond of, and it seems to be somewhat
Thank you, Ambassador Kosh. Hey, do you have any thoughts about that vacation
trip to Za'hadum that I was planing for next week?
> On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, John C wrote:
Always..
SA