[FT] Teach Newbie Vector or Cinematic?

9 posts ยท Mar 20 2002 to Mar 21 2002

From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@a...>

Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:24:51 -0600

Subject: [FT] Teach Newbie Vector or Cinematic?

This weekend or early next week I'll be teaching a hyperactive almost-13
year old how to play Full Thrust. The subject line pretty much outlines the
question. Cinematic rules would be easiest for him to pick up, particularly
since he has a short attention span and tends to go in blazing away. I suspect
with vector rules he'll end up sending his ships out of control. On the other
hand, I will probably end up going vector with him at some point so I wonder
if it's worth skipping the cinematic step and just going to vector.

What are your opinions? I know this has been asked before, but the criteria is
rather specific: kid with ADHD!

In case it matters, I'll probably give him Kra'Vak ships while I run FSE (to
show SMs and fighters). My force will be weaker than his, though (as if I need
it...). However, I might just pick NSL instead of Kra'vak so that his weapons
are similar to mine, to limit confusion. Any suggestions?

From: Indy Kochte <kochte@s...>

Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:10:15 -0500

Subject: Re: [FT] Teach Newbie Vector or Cinematic?

> Allan Goodall wrote:

Cinematic. Definitely cinematic. If he's seen SF spaceflight in movies
and tv shows, he'll grasp it better (of course, imo ;-)

> In case it matters, I'll probably give him Kra'Vak ships while I run

Urg, K'V for him? THey have a hard enough time keeping their weapons trained
on opponents. I'd say NAC or ESU (NSL seems in general too difficult to
maneuver)

My $0.02 worth :-)

From: Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@h...>

Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:18:43 -0800

Subject: Re: [FT] Teach Newbie Vector or Cinematic?

> From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@att.net>

> What are your opinions? I know this has been asked before, but the

Speaking as someone with ADD (Not quite ADHD, but still in the ballpark), I do
have some suggestions, though not about the specific movement system:

Don't underestimate such a kid's ability to get it if he really really likes
the game. My problem back in school was that things were TOO easy, and
couldn't hold my attention long. While you will want to keep your explanation
of the rules as simple as possible at first, DON'T make the GAME easy for him.
On the other hand, don't blow his doors off either. Boredom will be your chief
enemy. If you can fire his imagination, he'll learn calculus if it'll help his
game play.

3B^2

From: Ground Zero Games <jon@g...>

Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:59:06 +0000

Subject: Re: [FT] Teach Newbie Vector or Cinematic?

> From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@att.net>
Boredom
> will be your chief enemy. If you can fire his imagination, he'll learn

Couple of suggestions: Consider using "basic" FT2 style generic ship designs
rather than FB specifics to start with, and keeping to simple weapons (beams
and stuff) rather than introducing the more exotic ones right away. Teach the
movement system first; if he's got a real interest in space travel and real
science, then maybe go straight to vector, otherwise probably cinematic for
reasons people have already outlined. A suggestion to speed things up if you
fear waning of interest (and also useful for teaching younger kids the game)
is to start off with him not
having to write orders - YOU write your orders, then he moves his ships
as he wishes (within the rules of course), then you move yours according to
your orders; provided you only use direct-fire weapons rather than
placed-marker ones, this maintains the game integrity while making it a
lot faster for the learner; after he's used to the basics of movement this
way, THEN introduce the written orders for both players.

Good luck!!

;-)

From: Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@h...>

Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:14:26 -0800

Subject: Re: [FT] Teach Newbie Vector or Cinematic?

> From: Ground Zero Games <jon@gzg.keme.co.uk>

> Couple of suggestions:

This is good advice, that way the kid won't feel confined to be the
"nationality" of the ships you give him (I know, I know.... but PERCEPTION is
important, especially with kids).

and keeping to simple weapons (beams and stuff)
> rather than introducing the more exotic ones right away.

This will also give you a chance to observe his style, and if he does get into
the game, opens up the chance to suggest other weapons systems that

might fit his preferred tactics. Particularly take note if he comments on
wishing he had a weapon that can produce X effect.

> A suggestion to speed things up if you fear waning of interest (and

THIS IS EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!! Wow, wish i'd thought of it.

One last thing: While I can't speak for ALL LD people, I have noticed we tend
to be a creative, imaginitive bunch. Play up heavily the imagery that goes
with the game: Not just the pieces and how they function, but
especially the aspect of make-believe that these are mighty armadas
cruising the vast ink. I am willing to bet that the real world is often a
frustrating place for this kid, if you can give him a universe where he has a
stronger hand in his own fate, where his decisions have impact on what

happens in that universe, you'll find he'll be a loyal and frequent visitor to
it.

3B^2

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:14:39 -0500

Subject: Re: [FT] Teach Newbie Vector or Cinematic?

From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@att.net>
> What are your opinions? I know this has been asked before, but the

Joshua isn't ADHD...I don't think...but he picked up on vector reasonably
well. He prefers cinematic, and NSL (big ships, lots of guns).

You write your orders, then have him move first--that way he can just

From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@m...>

Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:48:33 +1100

Subject: RE: [FT] Teach Newbie Vector or Cinematic?

G'day,

> What are your opinions? I know this has been asked before,

Everyone else's comments are pretty much on the ball the only thing I'd add is

a) keep the forces relatively small b) make his slightly larger than yours c)
stick to beams and ptorps for the first few games (so I'd suggest ESU for him
and NSL for you)

Something along the lines of:

ESU 1xPetrograd BB 1xVoroshilev CH 2xTibet CL 1xWarsaw DD

NSL 1xMaximillian BC 1xMarkgraf CH 1xKronprinz Wilhelm CL
2xWaldburg DD (non-missile variant).

Its a 100 pts in his favour, but he is the learner after all;)

If you think that the "nationalities" will throw him or if you don't have the
right ships and you think the silhouettes will thrower him just give him the
actual SSD box, not all the rest of the ship blurb bits, and say these are
just some sample spaceships.

Have fun

From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@a...>

Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:47:28 -0600

Subject: Re: [FT] Teach Newbie Vector or Cinematic?

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:18:43 -0800, "Brian Bilderback"
> <bbilderback@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Speaking as someone with ADD (Not quite ADHD, but still in the

For the record, I have ADD. *S* My reading, and my own experience, suggests
that if someone with ADD or ADHD is interested in something it's the same as
someone without it. If they aren't, you can't make them pay attention. I
mentioned it in this case because he is more likely to want to jump into a
game than pay attention to instructions.

> Don't underestimate such a kid's ability to get it if he really really

> couldn't hold my attention long. While you will want to keep your
Boredom
> will be your chief enemy. If you can fire his imagination, he'll learn

> calculus if it'll help his game play.

That's been my experience. I thought of Kra'vak because the advanced drives
would be more forgiving for him. But, on second thought (and looking over the
ships) those single arcs are going to be a pain.

I might go for NAC and let him have some fighters. I think he'll figure out
things okay. I was going to take a slightly smaller fleet... and mine was
going to include a Bonaparte. He will have an edge though he may not know it!
*S*

From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@a...>

Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:52:12 -0600

Subject: Re: [FT] Teach Newbie Vector or Cinematic?

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:59:06 +0000, Ground Zero Games
<jon@gzg.keme.co.uk> wrote:

> Consider using "basic" FT2 style generic ship designs rather than FB

He wants to play with the fleet books. He saw that I was a playtester on FB1
and he's hot to use some of the stuff in that. Besides, I don't want to
confuse him later with FT2 stuff.

I will keep it simple, though. He's a bright kid and should pick up on things
fairly easily.

> A suggestion to speed things up if you fear waning of interest (and

This is a REALLY good idea. I may have to rethink the FSE, then. I'll stay
away from SMs and go for simpler weapons for this reason. Excellent
suggestion, Jon!