OK, Here is another shot at stats. Sol class Extended Range Superdreadnought
Tech: Human (FB) Govt: USNC Mass: 257 Cost: 881
Clas: Extended Range Superdreadnought (SDN-X)
Hull: Weak Strm: None FTL: Std.
MD: 4
Armr: 14
Damg: 51; 13/13/13/12
Crew: 13 Sens: Enhanced Systems
2 x Screen
5 x FCS
1 x ADFC
6 x PDS
1 x Wave Gun (F)
4 x Class-3 beam (F)
2 x Salvo Missile Launcher (FP,F,FS) 1 x Salvo Missile Magazine (6 Salvos)
3 x Class-2 beam (FP,F,FS)
3 x Class-2 beam (F,FS,AS)
1 x Class-2 beam (AS,A,AP)
4 x Class-1 beam (All)
8 x Cargo/Passenger Space
1 x Hanger Bay (Mass 2 Shuttle) Notes: This proposal was worked off the
initial proposal. It was scaled down and made more rounded (at the cost of
firepower). A Wave Gun was substitued for the Nova Cannon (better weapon).
4 Class-3s replaced 3 Class 4s. 7 class-2 beam batteries
replaced 6 Pulse torpedos (fore) as the fore arc has suficient firepower.
Superior sensors were added. Main Drive was increased to 4. Mass was reduced
by 7 and cost by 46.
Sol class Superdreadnought Tech: Human (FB) Govt: USNC Mass: 231 Cost: 837
Clas: Superdreadnought (SDN) Hull: Weak Strm: None FTL: Std.
MD: 2
Armr: 14
Damg: 46; 12/12/11/11
Crew: 12 Sens: Enhanced Systems
2 x Screen
5 x FCS
1 x ADFC
8 x PDS
1 x Wave Gun (F)
4 x Class-3 beam (F)
3 x Salvo Missile Launcher (FP,F,FS) 1 x Salvo Missile Magazine (6 Salvos) 1 x
Salvo Missile Magazine (6 Salvos)
4 x Class-2 beam (FP,F,FS)
4 x Class-2 beam (F,FS,AS)
1 x Class-2 beam (AS,A,AP)
4 x Class-1 beam (All)
1 x Hanger Bay (Mass 2 shuttle) Notes:
The non-extended version is 26 mass lighter and costs 44 less.
It drops the Main Drive to 2. Drops the cargo space. Adds a Salvo Missile
Launcher, and 6 missile salvos. It addes a 2
Class-2 beam batteries.
Not having seen these in person, they may still be too big.
Mas of other SDNs/Carriers:
Valley Forge: 190
Von Tegetthoff: 200
Der Thunderdank: 220 Komorov: 220 Konstantin: 240 Foch: 250 Jeanne D'Arc: 280
The listing above would put the UNSC SDN larger than Der Thunderdank and
Komorov (a huge ship). And the SDN-x larger than the Foch.
Since the whole reason for the -X is extended range, why not give them
the same weapons loadout but give the SDN-X cargo space and more hull?
In a one-off game the SDN would be the much better buy. In a campaign
game however that extra cargo space would be priceless.
> OK, Here is another shot at stats.
For both ships, I think that a weak hull makes them too much of an
egg-shell. I could punch it out with a BB. It seems that you're trying
to pack too much weaponry into the hulls.
Once again, I think that adding in the unbalanced weapons (Wave and Nova guns)
is a bad idea.
The Beam mix on this one is alot better, however.
> Since the whole reason for the -X is extended range, why not give them
I'd say, on the extended range topic, that the SMLs need to go, and perhaps
add in a fighter squadron or two for stand-off ops.
> On 25-Oct-99 at 10:44, Sean Bayan Schoonmaker (schoon@aimnet.com) wrote:
As far as I can tell he's using the technique of giving it a weak hull and
using the remainder to buy armour. If you play with it a bit you find that
this makes it significantly harder to get the first threshold, harder for the
second, slightly more difficult for the third, and the same for the fourth. I
have taken to designing everything bigger than an escort cruiser this way.
> I could punch it out with a BB.
I wouldn't count on it.
> Once again, I think that adding in the unbalanced weapons (Wave and
I definately agree with this. I would prefer not to see any "theoretical"
weapons.
> Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:
> >Since the whole reason for the -X is extended range, why not give
I'd agree with this one. The SDN and especially the SDN-X would be UNSC
fleet flagships and are likely to have a full complement of fighters,
diplomatic shuttles and marines, even if this is at the expense of weapons.
Their role would be different from that of any other nation's SDNs, they're
far more likely to be required to undertake new missions at the drop of a hat
and would
need to be multi-purpose. I would guess that they're also likely to be
required to act as the core of a task force with little or no support.
In fact, here's an idea:
UNSC taskforces will generally consist of one very large ship (BDN, SDN,
SDN-X)
with a small number of escort sized vessels. The reason? The psychological
effect of one extremely powerful vessel turning up at a trouble spot is far
more than that of several medium sized vessels (eg cruisers), even if the net
firepower is the same. By frightening the locals with the large ship, the UNSC
hopes to avoid conflict altogether.
This of course doesn't preclude the UNSC from requiring plenty of
cruisers -
these are still ideal for patrolling, convoy escorts etc.
Please discuss, agree, disagree etc
> As far as I can tell he's using the technique of giving it a weak
As long as your opponent isn't too lucky with his re-rolls ...
Well, I certainly can't imagine a SDN with less than average hull plus armour.
Aesthetically, I see weapon mounts placed well away from the hull. I
immediately think they must generate huge amounts of power so they should be
very nasty weapons. A wave gun or nova cannon seems like a possibility, but
they could just be railguns, class 4 beams, pulse torpedoes, or need to be
away from the hull to generate two screens. Possibly, they should use a new
weapon system like Heavy Beam Weapons from EFSB, or energy mines. In my
opinion, FT needs a good area effect weapon and a more competitive needle beam
weapon.
Mass wise, this ship doesn't look much more massive than anyone else's SDN.
> I'd say, on the extended range topic, that the SMLs need to go, and
Fighters would make sense but the model doesn't seem to allow them. The
forward section is smaller than fighter carrying sections on
other ships and there aren't any obvious launch/recovery bays. Maybe
the fighters could be carried externally on the 'wings'?
> On 25-Oct-99 at 11:14, Tony Francis (tony@glassghost.com) wrote:
He would have to be REALLY Lucky for it to be significant on a ship with this
many boxes.
How about increasing the thrust, from 2 to say 3... just a thought
Roger Books <books@mail.state.fl.us> on 10/25/99 06:36:25 AM
Please respond to gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
> Tom McCarthy wrote:
> Well, I certainly can't imagine a SDN with less than average hull plus
They could just be normal weapons placed there to give them _much_
better arcs of fire.
> A wave gun or nova cannon seems like a possibility, but
It does indeed.
> On 25-Oct-99 at 11:14, Tony Francis (tony@glassghost.com) wrote:
One name, two words: Aaron Teske.
Well, vs me live, anyway... ;-)
Mk
> Steve wrote:
> Fighters would make sense but the model doesn't seem to allow them.
I agree. Fighters don't fit on this one. Not a bad thing, since it helps to
distinguish it from everybody else's SDNs that all carry fighters.
I do think that missiles are called for on this one. Those
cross-hatched
panels on the forward hull look very much like vertical launch tubes, and the
"outrigger" tube mounts could carry "torpedoes" (MT missiles). The larger
missiles could even comprise a mix of standard and "EMP" warheads,
in order to give the ship a non-lethal capability. For that matter,
some
of the other weapons mounts could represent some form of non-lethal
weapon along the lines of the various "ion guns" that have been suggested
elsewhere (weapons that cause threshold checks without necessarily causing
hull damage). This seems like it might be in keeping with UN peacekeeping
doctrine... ("Don't blow 'em away if you can just turn out the lights and get
'em to quit").
The ship does need some sort of robust anti-fighter defense, however, if
we assume that it operates as the core of a small task force. Maybe "area
effect" warheads for the missiles?
I'm not entirely opposed the Wave Gun idea for that reason, as long as it
doesn't break the FB design balance. If it is used, there should be some
sort of limit to using other weapons on the same turn as the Wave Gun -
if it is utilizing the outboard beam batteries. By the same token it should
probably be inoperable if any of the outboard batteries are destroyed...
Hmmm... Maybe this is getting too complicated. Any thoughts?
That's the way that I have been designing my UNSC orbat. One big ship
surrounded by a lot of smaller ships. The way that I was designing my UNSC
fleet was around the idea of most ships being a specialised ship with say a
few normal cruisers and destroyers. If you go according to the UN history,
they are impowered to control the inner core but have no juristicion in the
outer core. They are only invited to help so they most likely won't have too
many captials. What they would have however is some of the largest and
scariest. Because they don't have to fight on a day to day basis, they don't
have to have as many capitals. What they would have however is a large fleet
of cruisers and destroyers which can be used in escorting and hunting down
pirates and the like.
Simon
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